And, I got thinking if I have ever met an ex-gay person. Nope. I can’t say I have. I have daily encounters with anti-gay factions and even my immediate family would fit many of the attributes of an anti-gay but I have never talked with an ex-gay.

I have suspicions about a co-worker (who is married) but I give him a wide berth.

Plus, I almost think I was in so much denial during my youth I could have been classified a “twilight zone” gay so I understand the stigma and the peer-pressure thing with being conforming to being hetero. But…

Except: I had a nice guy approach me at a rodeo once and he told me about his experiences in an ex-gay regimen somewhere in Oregon but that has been about it.

You have never met an “ex-gay” person before, have you?

I didn’t say that open and “out & proud” gay people are living dishonestly. I said that anti-gay and ex-gay advocates believe we are. The ex-gay ministers and conservative Christians I’ve talked to all believe that there really is no such thing as a gay person, just heterosexual people who “struggle” with “unwanted same-sex attractions” and who have “deluded” themselves into thinking that it’s ok to be gay. People like you and me, who identify as gay and believe that it’s ok for a man to have sex with another man, are not being honest with what we should know deep down, which is that God intended for us to have sex with women, as the Bible confirms (I know, I know, homosexuality as we know it today is vastly different from how it was understood in biblical times, but “critical thinking” and “contextual analysis” are relatively alien concepts to evangelicals).

To the “ex-gay” person, identifying as gay is not what God wants for our lives, so we are not living honestly until we start fighting these “temptations” and start behaving in a holy (read: heterosexual) way. In fact, a lot of Christians I’ve talked to even believe that if a gay person stops having gay sex, then he is no longer gay. This is all a complete load of crap, of course, but it helps to understand where the other side is coming from - especially when they’ve got it wrong.

Regarding Local Baptist’s dishonesty toward his pastor, I think he is doing something that every gay person experiences. When I accepted my homosexuality, I didn’t feel compelled to come out to every single person I know. For one thing, it’s none of their business, and for another, I think it’s rude to volunteer information that will most likely make my extended family and friends uncomfortable. However, if the question ever comes up, I will answer honestly. You could say that I’m lying by omission, but as is the case for Local Baptist, that’s my business, and I think lots of gay people can relate.

Being an American, I know how easy it is to project my sense of relative acceptance onto other people, and to assume that honesty is always the best option. But the truth is, sometimes it’s not. If you live in a place like South Africa, as Local Baptist explained, it’s often in a gay person’s best interest to be dishonest about their sexuality, if it saves you from beatings, imprisonment, social exile, etc. In a perfect world, every gay person would be free to live openly and honestly without fearing for their lives on a daily basis, but unfortunately that will never happen.

Better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

- André Gide (himself a gay man)

Perhaps I’m not seeing it…but how are the anti-/ex-gay advocates saying WE are the ones living dishonestly? Open and “out & proud” gays are dishonest? How?

I think grandale was giving Mr. Baptist latitude to live his life as he sees fit. But, grantdale was correctly pointing out a fact: Mr. Baptist is not being honest with his Pastor.

Thank you, Alex, for your support.

To everyone on this list, I am far happier living my “lie” than I was living my “truth”. As I have already said, I was never truly happy living a gay life, although I love the sex, I was never accepted by family and or friends and or church people where I was the organist. Everyone always criticized and judged. No one does that now. So my life is a lie to you, that’s fine, my life is open to God and that’s what matters. Finally only God can and will judge me for who and what I am and have done with the life He gave me. It is not the place for any mere mortal to assume this authority.

I agree that from what Local Baptist has told us, his life does seem very mixed up and unusual. But ultimately, his life is his business, even if you still think it’s nothing but a fraud. There’s no reason for us not to believe that Local Baptist genuinely loves his wife, and if what he says is true, she knew about his sexuality at the time they got married, which means she was not deceived or manipulated. So basically, what we’re left with here is two adults who just want to make a happy life for themselves - and that should be enough for you.

Frankly, for you to tell a complete stranger to stop pretending, lying, and hiding, it reminds me of exactly the kind of thing this site tries to speak out against: that is, people telling others how they should live. If it’s not ok for anti-/ex-gay advocates (who believe WE are the ones living dishonestly) to do it, then it’s not ok for openly gay people like you and me to do it, either.

Ron,
We probably won’t be alive when the LDS Church treats its gay Saints as equals. I’m sure there are Pre-existent Spirits still to come that will eventually replace the old dogma with their new enlighten ideas…so, I’m not going to grovel on the granite steps at the LDS HQ or tromp around their Temple Square with protest signs.

*I* need to find a partner and make the best of what I have now. I’ll let the next five or six generations do the work. (That’s assuming the younger generation of L-D Saints will be enlightened about gays.)