Ex-Gay Watch

Political Conservatives will decry “Nanny State” policies – policies involving government regulation – as infringing on personal liberty and inhibiting growth. Since virtually all ex-gays align themselves with conservative Christian politics (in America, this aligns with the Republican Party), one would think these same people would oppose anything approaching a Nanny State. But apparently, placing one’s self in a Nanny State lifestyle is a key for some ex-gays, and a key for everyone employed by Exodus International.

Wayne Besen reported on an ex-gay Anglican priest in Britain whose entire life is monitored by his wife and “others to whom  he’s accountable.” The former college drama teacher has a lock on his computer, lest he be tempted to look at pornographic images on the internet. But this hasn’t hampered his career as a professional ex-gay. Touting his own personal “success” as evidence, he is promoting his own line of ex-gay books, CD’s, and tapes.

For people who make a lifestyle out of posting information on the internet, a physical lock on the computer is not practical. That is where Covenant Eyes comes into play, Randy Thomas’ net-nanny of choice. In fact, Exodus International uses it as a whole. He states in his testimony on the CE website:

Technically, I have no clue how they do what they do (not even going to try and figure that mess out)! All I know is that two godly men, whom I trust, check my CE report every week. With a fine tooth comb, they do this. In fact, our whole staff at Exodus is covered by Covenant Eyes, even the straight laced choir lady who does our accounting; she never looks at anything crazy except maybe the (LOL) Cats Blog.

Whatever that technical mumbo jumbo is, it creates a report of every single Internet site I visit. EVERY single site. Not only that, it tracks how many times I have been to that site, length of stay, what time of day I am online, and what I ate for dinner that evening.

(Just kidding about the dinner part.)

The software even breaks down sites into levels of risk and makes the report easy to read. To top it off, it also says “Close Review Recommended” in BIG BRIGHT lettering, if Randy needs to be asked a few questions. I love this service.

Now, I can’t speak for all same-sex attracted people, or all ex-gays. But when I open up my laptop, my first impulse is not to seek out sexually stimulating material. Actually, I’m usually so busy catching up on news, email, and work, that the most recreational thing I do on my computer is play “Minesweeper.” But these ex-gays come off as so sensitive to anything remotely sexual that even a glimpse of a shirtless man will push them “off the ex-gay wagon” as it were. This does not give the impression of a person with a healthy relationship with their natural human sexuality.

To use an analogy: beating back the natural flow of your sexual attractions by avoiding anything that could come off as being remotely sexually suggestive is like capping off a running hose with your thumb. The water doesn’t cease flowing; rather, the force of the water increases as the thumb increases its pressure. The result is instead of a slow predictable steady flow in one direction, there is a high-pressure chaotic spray. The “flow” of one’s sexuality is similar. Capping it off by force won’t make it go away. Instead, it will cause one to act out in unhealthy ways; for example, through anonymous encounters or addiction to pornography.

Randy might talk about treating his online activity very gingerly, but he is a frequent visitor of blogs he will deem “pro-gay” or “containing inappropriate images” (such as beefcake pictures or ads for gay dating services) frequently found on blogs such as The Advocate, Joe My God, and Queerty. I suppose that as long as he knows CE is watching him, he doesn’t feel guilty about visiting blogs that are geared towards people who are comfortable with their sexual attractions.

I highly encourage you to use Covenant Eyes. While it only affects your online activity . . . face it . . . that’s a lot of activity!

Am I right? You know I am right.

With the Exodus blog, a Facebook profile, a personal blog, a Facebook “Fan page” for his personal blog, a Twitter account, a Disqus account, Google Wave, and who knows what else, there is no question Randy is right – that’s a lot of activity.

Randy Thomas “wept” at finding out how many are being tortured and murdered abroad because they are attracted to the same sex.

I honestly don’t know what to do other than expose it here on the blog and pray for doors to open.  Some have for Alan in Uganda (currently getting ramped up for a government crackdown ::: shaking my head in bewilderment :::) and for a couple of other people we know with other countries.

It might seem surprising that Randy would claim “bewilderment” at the actions of Ugandans, since a member of his own organization’s board went overseas to participate in the conference that sparked such “bewildering” actions against gays. But it shouldn’t be surprising, according to Randy, because:

Yes, [Don Schmierer] is a board member but Exodus, as an organization, had nothing to do with that conference.

Apparently, because he is a board member and not a staff person, he has no accountability to the organization of Exodus International. He said the following in response to a commenter taking him to task:

Do you know what *all* has and hasn’t been done? We don’t treat everything as blog fodder for public show. Just because we don’t have daily briefings with activists intent on “destroying” us, or bloggers seeking something to blog about, doesn’t mean some significant discussions and inroads have been made in the background.

Actually, Randy blogs every single day, often several times a day. He recently celebrated his 1800th post.  A significant amount of his posts have to do with homosexuality or topics relating to “ex-gay” – sorry, “post-gay” – issues. And he is quick to provide publicity for other events, articles and blog posts created by Alan Chambers, Albert Mohler, Mike Ensley, and many allies of the ex-gay community. So a silence regarding a well-publicized conference featuring prominent ex-gay advocates, including a member of Exodus’ own board, is peculiar.

Alan Chambers made a statement on his blog that could be considered a great first step. But direct action is what is needed, not blog posts.

XGW reported in December that Exodus International downsized “youth specialist” Mike Ensley. However, no official word was ever publicly released on the websites of Exodus, President Alan Chambers, Vice President Randy Thomas, or even Ensley himself. In fact, Ensley’s blog – mikeensley.vox.com – kept running as though all was normal well after news got around he was fired laid off. Ensley was a frequent commenter at Randy Thomas’ own blog up until as recently as this past November. But not a peep was mentioned about his being let go.

Ensley now seems to have officially disintegrated his blog, although Randy still keeps a (now dead) link to it in his blog roll. And even though he no longer is employed by Exodus, his biography page remains on the site and easily discovered through a Google search. On the Exodus Youth page, Ensley has authored a great deal of the articles present and a link leads to an official page listing the posts credited to him. His most recent post is dated at December 10th 2008, about 2 months ago.

Freelance photography may be his next move. His MySpace page describes him as “an aspiring writer, photographer and artist living in Orlando.” Included in his Flickr.com portfolio are images from Exodus and “ex-gay”-related events.

Randy Thomas has clarified his personal “change” yet again.

Because “ex-gay” organizations like Exodus International (of which Randy is the Vice President) have been closely publicly scrutinized in the last few years, their public facade has changed considerably. For one thing, they no longer loudly tout the idea of changing from homosexual to heterosexual. Since it has been revealed both by their own studies and by ex-gay program survivors that people can’t just flip a sexual switch through years (sometimes decades) of prayer and therapy, the complexities of sexuality have been grudgingly acknowledged to justify the notion of “change” in program leaders. The stubborn persistence of same-sex attraction in Exodus’ leaders and participants has even been acknowledged, largely shifting the focus from altering innate attractions to making it about the “journey of obedience to G-d.” The innateness of attraction has even been somewhat acknowledged, blaming its existence on the “fall of man” – saying we’re all sinners fighting temptation; be it adultery, slandering others, lying, or becoming romantically involved with members of the same sex.

In response to a question about how he has “changed,” Randy begins with this reply:

For me it has led to a celibate life (so far) but many do move on toward healthy heterosexuality and marriage. I also don’t see it as “conversion” but more of a journey.

When asked about praying the gay away, Randy responds with this:

My prayer has rarely, if ever, been for God to change me into a heterosexual (even though my sexual attractions have changed incrementally over time … even with temptations.) My prayer has always been for Him to help me be content to live an obedient and joyful life regardless of what circumstances and feelings arise.

So far, everything that Randy says is reasonable for a person who has religious objections to acting upon same-sex attractions. Nothing quoted would be a direct objection to the “Side B” way of life. But then things take a bit of a turn:

That’s why the whole false social construct of gay vs. straight fails everyone with same sex attractions. It keeps some locked in simplistic easy out answers and others without definition. That’s why I reject the labels gay, ex-gay or straight and have pursued a post-gay journey for over sixteen years now.

Randy once DID embrace the “straight” label (this quote is in response to Truth Wins Out’s Wayne Besen):

…I am not straight today because I listened to some silly tape (as Wayne Besen suggests…)

Randy is correct, “gay vs. straight” is a social construct – but it is also not one that the greater LGBTQ community adheres to. For one thing, it ignores the existence of “B” – bisexual persons. It also ignores the concept of “Q” or “queer,” commonly used by people who feel that L, G, and B labels are too constricting. The LGBTQ community isn’t a group of “gays,” it is made up of a variety of people who are sexual minorities; including people who don’t conform to any dichotomy, whether it’s related to sexuality or gender definition.

Equally telling is this next quote, in which Randy rejects the term “lifestyle” but defends the validity of his own definition:

I think when most people say “lifestyle” they are picking up on an underlying gay ideology that tries to force people with same sex attraction into the false dissonance of having to choose between “coming out” as gay or remain “closeted.” The way this manifests is different for each person but the ideology imposed is the same. I don’t like the word lifestyle either because it is meaningless nowadays. But I firmly believe there is a basic gay ideology that forces people to believe they either publicly identify as gay or they are ignorant, selfish and self-loathing.

Saying there is no gay “lifestyle” (there isn’t) but then turning around and declaring that all gays adhere to a certain “ideology” negates the previous statement. And nobody in the LGBTQ community is demanding that people either “identify as gay” or be considered our enemy. Rather, we ask for sexual honesty. And once again, Randy’s assertion totally ignores the community’s inclusion of persons who consider themselves sexually flexible and/or refuse to adhere to a label.

Randy’s final statement could, ironically, be applied to any “Side B” person:

…I don’t have to “change” my sexual attractions in order to be reconciled and obedient (not act on those attractions) to God. I also don’t need to force myself into a self-imposed restriction of what God may bring into my life.

If only people like Randy could embody this statement by taking an apolitical, “live and let live” attitude instead of trying to force others to adhere to his “false dissonance” of forcing people to either be “with” the Exodus ideology or “against” it.

Gay columnist Dan Savage has examined a recent event involving the receipt of ricin-laced letters by several gay bars. He theorizes that an embittered gay man must be the perpetrator.

The letters strike me as having been written by a very bitter man—by someone who came out, expected that gay life would a glorious cycle of song, and was shocked to discover that gay life—just like straight life—comes with no guarantees. In the years after coming out he learned that some people, gay and straight, can be a**holes; that gay men were not, despite the hype, his “brothers.” I wouldn’t be surprised if this person had a meth problem and a string of failed relationships. He’s someone who has probably, through the choices he’s made, succeeded in making a complete hash of his life. But he doesn’t want to take responsibility for his choices so he blames gay people in general, and gay life, and the bars, and pins his personal failures on the “community.” (He’s a blood brother to those guys who come out, spend ten methed-out years on their backs in bathhouses, and then decide that gay life is depressing and squalid and sinful before they “come out” as ex-gays.) [emphasis added]

That last emphasized part caused worlds to collide, as it prompted professional ex-gay second-in-command Randy Thomas of Exodus International to comment on Savage’s blog as well as his own.

As someone who is contentedly stable as an “ex-gay” … I find your caricaturization of the potential terrorist as possibly a “blood-brother to … ex-gay” implies a deep ignorance of who we, as a whole, really are.

For the most part, we are intelligent, balanced, stable, tolerant of what we may not personally accept and loving. We looked at what identifying as gay and all of the predetermined relational options of what that means and said, “no thanks.” Some of us have experienced orientation shift and others haven’t … and we are all living out our faith and life as we see fit. I and everyone I know, have no desire to force others into our line of thinking.

I hope you realize that even though we have strong moral, public policy and spiritual disagreements … we don’t have to be a depressed psychotic terrorist simply because we don’t agree with you or have your blessing.

I don’t care if the man/woman is a religious zealot. I don’t care if they do turn out to be ex-gay. I don’t care if they are a gay activist trying to fake a “hate” crime. Whoever did it is a psychotic who deserves a lot of jail time for making terrorist threats.

And no matter who they are I pray they will find a peaceful resolution to their inner conflicts … while in jail.  I have made it a matter of prayer that while our gay friends and their friends are drinking in the face of danger … I am praying for their safety and genuinely care that they have the freedom to assemble in peace and safety.

Mr. Savage, please don’t stigmatize “ex-gay’s” in such a way. And before someone says that I shouldn’t stigmatize gays either … you are right and I try not too. But again, strong disagreements doesn’t equal to profiling a psychotic person with a negative generalized view of what an “ex-gay” believes or experiences.

Sidenote: I quote “ex-gay” because I hate that label.

Randy completely misses Savage’s point. He isn’t saying that ex-gays are more likely to be terrorists or have specific negative characteristics. He’s saying that when people enter into something with unrealistic expectations, they ultimately set themselves up to fail. Randy seems to have forgotten that his own ex-gay testimony, as well as many of the ex-gay testimonies from the men on Exodus’ website, are rife with the characteristics present in Savage’s profile. Randy might be “contentedly stable as an ‘ex-gay’” now, but his gay days describe exactly the kind of gay man that would grow discontent and unfulfilled by “the gay lifestyle.” A self-described “slut,” Randy insinuates that he was patronizing gay bars at 14 years old. He lived a life of drugs and promiscuity that left him empty. Then he decided to trade one extreme for another and go from being a promiscuous “liberal” “sexual deviant” to a socially and politically conservative Christian Biblical literalist.

If anybody “caricaturizes” the ex-gay life, it’s ex-gay organizations like Exodus, who publish the same tired stories over and over again. It isn’t possible for us to be “ignorant of who [ex-gays] really are” because Exodus gives us the personal testimonials of ex-gays themselves. And the same descriptions of gay life appear in every article:

In 1976 I began dating a man that I knew. Having found my “Mr. Right,” I was ready to settle down into a lifelong relationship. But that “lifelong” relationship lasted only six years…Since I couldn’t have what I thought I wanted, I compromised my life. Now I was willing to become involved with men who did not want a committed relationship. I was willing to go out to the strip clubs and, in an alcoholic blur, drown my sorrows and lost dreams.

By the time I was 29, I was sick of the drugs, alcohol and prostitution. I [had] been sleeping with two or three people every night for almost ten years.

When I finally left the church in disgust, I left home and plunged headlong into the gay lifestyle. The sight of men dancing with each other and publicly kissing made me feel so good. I felt like I was finally in a place where I belonged. I was new on the gay scene; soon everyone was asking who I was and who I was dating. I went to house parties, orgies, got hooked on “poppers” and started drinking. I was like a kid in a candy store with no parents around!

[A]t nineteen, I found out that a neighbor of mine was gay. I had never had an opportunity before this but had told myself that I would follow through if ever propositioned. He soon showed me all that the gay life had to offer. I soon was in one relationship after another. While at times I was in relationships that seemed to be enjoyable and satisfying, they never seemed to last, while others left me feeling as if I were a prostitute.

I met a much older man and we planned a date for the following week. He lavished attention on me, and I loved it. But after a few times together, he seemed to lose interest in me; the next week, I saw him with another guy who looked even younger than me. I found it difficult to enter into a long-term relationship with other men. One time I asked a group of gay friends, “Don’t you think it’s a little strange that all we talk about and think about is sex? Is that what the average heterosexual is like?” No one responded, but I knew that what we were experiencing wasn’t right.

I went wild and plunged into the gay night life. I moved to Amsterdam, especially because I knew that the Gay Games were going to be held there. I developed a large circle of friends and was thoroughly immersed in the night life. After living like this for about six months, something began to feel like it was eating away at me inside.

I became disillusioned with gay life, realizing that I was never going to find “the one” and live happily ever after. Surprisingly, this truth was told to me numerous times by many long-time life partners I knew. I knew them because they met me in bars, at parties, or on the internet and took me home to sleep with them. I lived this way basically from age 16 to 21, miserable but truly believing there was nothing else out there for me.

[At gay bars] I felt acceptance for what had been my greatest source of shame. I savored not having to hide the fact that I was gay. I also became addicted to anonymous sexual encounters, which lacked the relationship that I was really craving—but, for 10 minutes or so at a time a portion of my need was satisfied.

I made up for lost time and jumped head first into the gay lifestyle. I was out and proud. I went to the Metropolitan Community Church and was determined to be a different kind of gay man – moral, upright and nonpromiscuous. I failed miserably and completely from day one.

Dan Savage is exactly right when he says that the difficulties that naturally accompany being homosexual are exactly the same as those that naturally accompany being heterosexual. They are the same difficulties that naturally accompany being human and attracted to other human beings. There are no guarantees, and life is what you make it.

As evidenced by the quickly progressing deaths of gay bars around the country, there is more proof than ever that the path of coming out doesn’t terminate at a nightclub party. My queer friends are meeting others like them at school, at their jobs, through mutual friends, and at religious events – just like their straight counterparts. Going to a bar or “clubbing” for us seems to be something to do as an aside if and when you are in the mood, rather than a means to satisfy a need. But yet again, not everyone likes bars. For some, they aren’t even entertaining enough to patronize as a novelty once a year.

While it can be healthy to put faith into a higher power, one must still take responsibility for their own decisions and never forget that G-d helps those who help themselves. Blaming the whole of one’s problems on their sexual orientation is the easy way out of facing their true issues.

Several professional ex-gays made their political leanings very public post-election day. Specifically, Randy Thomas and Alan Chambers, who head Exodus International, the “ex-gay” organization that has “exited politics.” On Nov. 4th’s historic election night, he was jumping for joy over anti-gay amendments, as evidenced by multiple posts on his live blog session. Jay Holloman, a celibate same-sex attracted young man who frequently comments and occasionally writes for XGW, also participated in the live blog session. He had a centrist and often very tolerant tone, but found himself at odds with Thomas. Below are some examples of the messages that were posted. To give you a preview of what’s to come, here is this quip:

9:09 Randy Thomas: Democrats need to stop picking up Senate seats.

On anti-equality amendments:

9:00 Randy Thomas: Amendment 2 at 62% with 39% percent of precincts reporting!!! We have to have 60% to win….
9:01 Randy Thomas: In FL… you have to have 60%
10:49 Randy Thomas: Amendment 2 just dipped under 60%
…
11:36 Ellie: So we now have one state with legal gay marriage, one state with explicitly illegal. Hopefully we can add two more.
11:37 Randy Thomas: YAY! I think AZ’s 102 got less attention because it was doing so well.
…
11:37 Randy Thomas: CNN says that Amendment two is still at 62% with 87% of the precincts reporting in.
11:38 Randy Thomas: I JUST GOT AN EMAIL FROM THE AMENDMENT 2 CAMPAIGN SAYING THAT IT PASSED!
11:39 Randy Thomas: That’s a big wow. I will be honest… this is the second time I have gotten emotional tonight.
11:40 Randy Thomas:

How Christian of him to rejoice at the rejection of an entire community’s civil equality. Read more…

Nancy Alcorn, founder and head of Mercy Ministries, a “Bible-based” rehabilitation home for girls facing ailments ranging from eating disorders to sexual abuse, is a closeted lesbian according to former member Jennifer Wynne. Nashville Scene provides an eye-opening article outing Alcorn and exposing terrifying realities behind Mercy Ministries, as described by the experiences of several former members.

Wynne, a lesbian herself, was entrusted with providing alibis for Alcorn’s secret liaisons with another “ex-lesbian” named Lisa who paid frequent visits to Mercy, where “looking lesbian was a major crime.” Wynne, in Alcorn’s inner circle, became part of the deception.

While Wynne was in Dallas, Alcorn told her about Lisa, a nutritionist at the Nashville home. Lisa had been gay for 17 years, said Alcorn, but now she was straight. Which made it all the more puzzling to Wynne when Alcorn would shut her door at night with Lisa in the bed behind her. Wynne wasn’t sure exactly what was happening. She just knew that every once in a while Alcorn could be counted on to rush into her room in the middle of the night, frantically begging Wynne to pray with her that Lisa wouldn’t leave.

Thus began a pattern. Lisa would threaten to go and Alcorn would buy her something. First it was a Range Rover. Then a newer Range Rover. And finally a house in Belle Meade. When Alcorn’s pastor caught wind of the relationship, he offered a remedy reminiscent of Alcorn’s own prescription for preventing lesbianism: a separation contract.

Suddenly Wynne’s job title changed. At 20 years old, she was already Mercy’s youngest intake director, the second-highest gig in the house. Now she was also Alcorn’s alibi. Wynne was dragged along to local coffee shops to witness Alcorn and Lisa’s “accidental” run-ins. They’d leave together afterward.

A blog was started by another former Mercy member, Jodi Ferris, to be a witness to the injustices experienced there. It’s entitled “Mercy Ministries of America: Truth Will Out.”

Hat Tip: Commenter John Weaver

In Exodus VP Randy Thomas’ latest attempt to define the happenstance of being attracted to the same sex with a single cultural “worldview,” he almost figures it out. He almost realizes that what pushes us to become LGBTQ rather than just L, G, B, T, and Q is our daily task of facing discrimination and opposition – including opposition from people like him who are members of groups like Exodus International. In his blog post about the hypothetical “Gay Legacy,” Randy ponders the discrimination and hardships faced today by gay senior citizens and recounts his own encounter with a young gay activist who had been picketing a Love Won Out conference:

He angrily went on to tell me how oppressed he and his boyfriend were (in Massachusetts), and how he had been beat up during his school years for being “different.” He had tried everything (at eighteen) to get rid of his feelings and now he was happy and embraced both his being “gay” and Christianity. He shared about how his coming to peace with his sexuality inspired him to organize the gsa (gay straight alliance) in his school.

I thought it remarkable that, aside from his wanting to get rid of his homosexuality in his early teens, he was repeating the exact same messaging I was saying before he was even born.

Well, Randy, it’s not difficult to deduce that discrimination against LGBTQ persons, despite remarkable growth of acceptance in my generation, is still rampant. This young man is not repeating “messaging.” He is describing his struggle to live honestly, without fear. There is nothing “remarkable” about seeing person after person recall the same kind of struggles with their family, church, and community.

When Randy decided to become a Christian, he rejected his homosexuality completely in favor of a path of sexual celibacy and self-deception, joining a group that actively seeks to limit LGBTQ equal rights and keep the bullying of LGBTQ youth socially acceptable. This young man reached a much more honest conclusion than Randy did, by deciding to be sexually true to himself and channeling his struggle for acceptance into positive outreach to other gay youth.

What many XGW readers may themselves marvel at is Randy’s admission here:

Public policy battles will always be flash-points of non-compromise but I am personally encouraged that today’s broader culture is much safer for those with same sex attractions than the reality of what some of our Senior citizens went through. It’s not perfect and I am not dismissing that true hatred (on both sides) flares up. Even so, it is a far different reality for that 18 year old as compared to the Seniors mentioned in the article.

Does this provide evidence of an ex-gay acceptance of the reality of substantial LGBTQ existence? In my personal opinion, it is a way for the ex-gay camp to spin a losing cultural battle into an avenue of evangelizing their propaganda. Just like ex-gay proponents are quickly restyling their message in reaction to undeniable proof that homosexuality is not caused by alterable nurturing factors such as an “overbearing mother,” a more visible LGBTQ community coming out at a much younger age means a bigger more vulnerable target for Exodus and their ilk. Fortunately, we are growing up knowing better.

By now, regular readers of Ex-Gay Watch will know of the controversy surrounding homophobic remarks made by Iris Robinson, a Member of UK Parliament.

Robinson, a health spokesperson and wife of Northern Ireland’s First Minister, said that homosexuality was “vile,” “disgusting,” “nauseating” and “an abomination,” and recommended ex-gay therapy to turn homosexuals heterosexual.

We have already discussed a handful of contrasting reactions, but there are others worth noting. For example, Canadian Exodus ally Wendy Gritter weighs in on Warren Throckmorton’s blog to denounce the invective in no uncertain terms: Read more…

Yesterday, I noticed a post from Peter LaBarbera concerning The Marin Foundation. I remembered hearing Andrew Marin’s story on a podcast from The Gay Christian Network (GCN) and something didn’t click. Marin was a self-confessed “bible-banging homophobe” brought up in the Assemblies of God. His life was changed by the coming out stories of his three best friends in college. It led him to immerse himself (Marin is straight) in the gay community to understand and identify with the struggles so many have.

He has a passion to be a genuine, unconditional representation of God’s love to both the gay community and the traditional evangelical community. These and similar terms he uses are not meant to express a false dichotomy, but simply to make it easier to describe his concepts. He now lives in Boystown, Chicago, with his wife and has formed The Marin Foundation.

I had always been under the impression that Marin was one of those few success stories, one of the truly “good guys” who is affected by the honesty and truth of the GLBT people in his life and changes because of it. To see him described on LaBarbera’s site as “the other side of the same coin” caught me off guard. I wrote Marin and told him this, and asked him if he had given the only real quote that LaBarbera used. He replied quickly, and sincerely, and it led to a conversation which you may hear below.

My own assessment of what I have heard is that LaBarbera has co-opted the good will and reputation of another for himself. He already has the idea that someone is spending millions of dollars just to counter his fringe voice, so there is no doubt that he is self-absorbed. But it would appear he is willing to negatively impact both friend and foe in his struggle to be noticed.

In matters of faith there is little agreement, but one does not need to agree with Marin to sense his sincerity. I found him willing to listen and teachable. Like Wendy Gritter, he had a profound sense of the hurt LGBT’s have suffered because of the actions of the Church. But he wants nothing to do with ex-gay anything; his work, concern, and love are unconditional. You can decide what you like about Marin, but I hope you will listen to the conversation and see what you think of LaBarbera’s actions toward him.

The first part is a quick background on Andrew Marin, then his description of the issue with LaBarbera.

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