Worth the price of admission right there, Regan.

Uh. So you’re saying the Israeli army is weaker than ours? Or you’re saying that the thousands of American servicemembers who ALREADY serve openly pose a threat? My military family would argue back, but we’re currently laughing.

“Marriage is a biblical institution. Why would we want to align ourselves with the very faction of society that is persecuting us.”

Wrong. Marriage predates the Adam & Eve myth. By several thousand years, actually.

That’s all the response necessary. The troll is most likely not an actual gay man, but a self-hating wingnut. Hell, it could be David Benkof, crawling out from under some rock. Have you checked IPs?

I know it’s hard to live as a gay person. But if you don’t have enough brass to step up, at least say THAT, instead of denigrating those who do and calling it something else.

It takes a LOT of courage in some quarters to be an unapologetic gay person who is fighting the status quo.

If gay soldiers didn’t step up, and BIGOTRY were allowed to prevail over honesty in uniform, then that would be very wrong.
And NOTHING towards the better would be accomplished, would it?

I sit here a black woman supremely grateful to my family and all the other black people who took whatever risks, indignity and so on that I could be free to be who I am.
And I’ll be damned if I’ll sit and enjoy it, while gay folks take these same risks and indignities without ME putting the time in.
I know some people aren’t born or understand being an activist or what might be asked of them.

But you putting down those that DO carry on without running from the challenges that get tough isn’t right, let alone forgivable and forgettable.
And doing it in front of the very people who CAUSE and maintain homophobia in the first place is another wrong piled on.

And I shouldn’t be the one that had to tell you.

In that Jewish family, their eldest boy said he hated being Jewish. Not surprising that he felt that way, the USSR made life extremely harsh on the Jewish who were not free to be educated about it, congregate or be a part of their faith culture.
That boy broke my heart when he said it.
And RIGHT AWAY, I told him what would be needed for him to heal that tear in his heart, appreciate his roots and get to know the diversity of Jewish life in our neck of Los Angeles.
I have done the same for gay youth for a lot of the same reasons.
There are some essential similarities in what one is conditioned to know, be and expect when part of one or ALL of those minorities.

Self respect is attacked and damaged DELIBERATELY.

You think you might love yourself, but you have no love or respect for OTHER GAY PEOPLE, which is just as bad or worse.

While I was talking to my young Jewish neighbor, my best girlfriend sat beside us and listened to what I told this boy, whose family we cared about. And my gf was the one who was Jewish, born in post war Romania.

But there we were, from as disparate a situation as you can imagine, and yet…thoroughly on the same page.

History, and one’s firm grasp of it will do that.
You Sterling, aren’t caught up to the rest of us. You fell WAY behind and haven’t yet appreciated that’s what happened.

You have no sense of the sort of inherent obligation one has when belonging to the groups we do who have a history of being denied their very humanity and equal status and the standards that go with them.

I’m not gay, I’m not even Jewish. But there are no gay people that have told me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Same for Jewish people for that matter.

So it’s interesting that from a thread where the majority is gay, you’re being challenged on what you say.

You might want to consider why that is.

See majorities have been exceptionally wrong before when it’s come to understanding what civil equality means. Especially to those traditionally denied before.

Equality, and justice have an acceptable, exceptionally righteous and socially moral LEGACY that systemic bigotry and civil discrimination never have.

Consider that too, more than Biblical interpretation, more than ideology that demands it’s power come at the very expense of equality and how little time gays and lesbians have had in owning their identity for themselves.

Even if you feel not so obligated to support other gay people, and if you’re going to get in YOUR own way, fine.
But you better get the f**k out of the way of other gay folks.
Otherwise, it puts you in a position you’ll hate even more later on.

Good for you. It’s not about self-hatred. The jury is probably out on that one, but I’l take your word for it.

You just want to protect us from those mean old straight people out there. So it is really just about fear. I suppose that is better than self-hatred, at least for you.

But i have a BETTER idea. Why don’t we try to educate people instead? Why don’t we stand up for ourselves? Why don’t we try to eliminate one more fear-based mindset in the world, instead of cowering in the corner hoping they won’t hit us?

Ben, please consider the source and try not to keep this garbage going by responding too much in kind. Sterling or whoever he/she is has been moderated and so can’t respond anyway.

so maybe I wasn’t being so harsh after all?

Ben, talking only of Sterling’s comment that prompted your response, he does illustrate the mindset of many who end up seeking the help of ex-gay organizations or therapists. Considering the nexus of people who end up at XGW, I think it important not to be combative if they are simply telling their story or trying to illustrate what feeds the organizations we follow.

Now of course the conversation has evolved, and it does seem that Sterling is incorporating a preposterous set of claims in an argument he is apparently serious about. When called on this, he has resorted to the “you don’t accept me because I don’t believe like you” defense.

This, combined with the assumption that there is one monolithic “gay community,” and a description of the “gay scene” as involving “drugs, promiscuity, bars, clubs, and crimes” — this does leave me questioning a lot about Sterling, yes.