It is worth thinking about how the vast majority of people not only come to accept their own religious beliefs, but are able to quickly and easily reject the beliefs of others.

It has taken Christianity a long time to reconcile its differences within itself (and it is still in progress). There are some Christians who are going beyond the bounds of Christianity and begining to enact dialogue with others of other faiths in a spirit of equality rather superiority. The acceptance and practice of diversity is by no means an easy one to grasp, and it will take a long time for more people to begin to understand, let alone embrace diversity.

But taking the religion out of the equation, we as humans still have a long way to go before we begin to appreciate one another even in a secular manner. There are white Americans feels superior to non-white Americans and vice versa, English speaking Americans feel superior to non-English or multi-lingual Americans and vice versa, some people in the North feel superior to those in the South and vice versa.

It is true, it is something we are raised with. I remember attending a football game during my high school years, and everyone was cheering on our team, and I thought to myself, the only reason we think we’re better is because we live near the school so we have to attend it. Had I lived near the school of the opposite team, I would think they were superior.

Until we as human beings realize we are equal from birth, and that the inequalities in the world are human-made, not Divinely inspired, we will have hate groups, religious or not, that despise Jews, gays, and anything that separates the “us” from the “them.”

Since I’m sure this website wouldn’t want to grant special elevated status to pro-religious viewpoints while censoring others,

No, but we do ask that you remain somewhat on topic.

I don’t believe any gods exist, and I don’t need a savior. The notion that the crucifixion of a man (or son of a god) somehow washes away sin strikes me as absolutely preposterous. And the notion that I will suffer for eternity in an afterlife for not believing any of it is equally preposterous – to the chagrin of those who seek to control my thoughts, beliefs, and actions.

I can understand how ancient people would be desperate to make some sense of their existence, and would develop the concept of gods as the most plausible explanation. But I can also understand how some clever people would soon realize they could amass power and influence by claiming special insights and receiving revelations from the gods. The seizing of power became complete once these clever people convinced the masses that the god(s) knew their every thought and action, and that he would punish them in an afterlife if they didn’t think and behave in prescribed ways. And thus, organized religion was born.

It is worth thinking about how the vast majority of people not only come to accept their own religious beliefs, but are able to quickly and easily reject the beliefs of others. In overwhelming numbers people take on the religion of their parents and/or their social environment. It happens through indoctrination, not education. Yes, throughout history there have been waves of change, but after each wave the new/revised beliefs are passed along to many subsequent generations. And many people make an unremarkable change in religious flavors, such as from Presbyterian to Lutheran. But how many people do you know who, without bias, have researched the world’s religions in order to select the correct one? It is fascinating to see how Christians (for example) quickly and easily reject other religions as being so obviously preposterous.

After those statements, it may seem surprising for me to say that I am enthralled by much of the magnificent architecture and music that religion inspired or produced (although I think it all served mostly as marketing tools over the centuries). I remember one experience about thirty years ago while walking alone in New York City. I wandered into St. Thomas Church, which was virtually empty except for the organist practicing. The experience was overwhelming with the combination of magnificent architecture, soaring thundering organ, and all of it illuminated by the sunlight streaming through the stained glass windows. Some might have called it a religious experience, but I saw it as the power of architecture, art, and music (although I was merely somewhat agnostic at the time).

It’s okay if we disagree, personally I think people use religion as an excuse to hate rather than religion making them hate. But you are correct that there are many great mysteries and paradox’s, especially when it comes to freewill and the origin of sin and stuff like that.

“The absurdity of calling Jews “Christ killers” brought out a similar response in me– more absurdity.”

I agree, it is absurd, anti-biblical and wicked to accuse the people of the Jewish faith of being “Christ killers.”

My observation actually came from concversation with a Christian acquaintance of mine, based upon his (and my) reading and understanding of the gnostic and cathar heresies. It was the only way we could reconcile these very contradictory messages. Yes, sin is bad, though what constitutes it seems very arbitrary. Yes, we have free will, but we’re not supposed to exercise it. Yes, we are redeemed through G’s love, unless we aren’t, which is the message of so many so-called Christians of the Freddi Phelps-Kreuger variety.

Again, i apologize if this was seen as mocking Christianity. what I was trying to point out is that this tension/contradiction between sin, G’s love, redemption, and free will is what allows the phelpses of the world, whether Chrsitian, Jew, or Muslim, to operate.

The absurdity of calling Jews “Christ killers” brought out a similar response in me– more absurdity.

I noticed it but decided to find out if it would be ignored before moderating.

The first part is correct, the second part, I think, is a bit unfair. God wished to create a world in which true relationship between Himself and creation would exist, because of this it became necessary to allow his children the ability to sever the relationship if they so willed it. When they did God made the decision to give himself as a sacrifice to restore the relationship that He had originally intended. There are various reasons why this was necessary, they involve his holiness and His desire to express to His children the extent to which He loves them.

I apologize to the forum for being off-subject but I do represent that part of the gay community that is very serious about it’s faith and I do not wish for needless (or worse, incorrect) bashing of religion to take place. Let us reprove the Church for failing for 2000 years to address an entire people group in the love that they were required to give by their Saviour, but I hope that we do not throw the baby out with the bath water and say that the entire religion is evil.

Just a thought.

Yes, and you would find that the Holy See still hopes for the Jewish acceptance of the Messiah, not because they hate them but because they believe that he is the way of eternal life. As Christians we are trying to express love to all of our fellow humans though we are very bad at it.

Christ volunteered to die so that many could live, thus, all of us who have put our trust in Jesus and been covered in His blood do, in fact, cause His death. To single out either Jews or Romans is to accept a very flawed theology.

As a former almost-a-Christian, i learned that Jesus was SUPPOSED to die as the ransom/gift for the sins of mankind so that we could all be forgiven. Or, putting it another way, G committed suicide in tpyical Jewish guilt for saddling us with a world where sin exists when he should have been paying more attention.

Moreover, if nothing else is clear, it was the Romans who ordred Jesus’s death by vcrucifixion, which was a roman punishment for political misbehavior.

So where does Freddie Phelps-Krueger get this stuff?