Ex-Gay Watch

Maybe Ted Haggard could learn something form Paul Barnes.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/16798/pastor-resigns-over-homosexuality

The problem isn’t his homosexuality, the problem is his self-hatred. If he was indeed molested as a boy, it would be interesting to know by whom.

Total honesty??? You’re lovable fools, you are!

Good God. He was replaced by his best mate Rick Warren within 15 minutes. He doesn’t need to be honest – they all hope he just simply pisses off. Out of sight. Forever. Live and die by the sword, don’t they say?

And if he was molested — I want a name. I am sick of ‘that’ excuse from such people.

Ted… who did it?

Grantdale– I got to say it first!!! The great likelihood– around 50%– was that it was his father or stepfather or father surrogate– someone that would identify as heterosexual in terms of his interests and experience. But that would hurt the credbility of the ex-gay cause, wouldn’t it.

Our boy Ted is an inveterate media hound, and clearly misses that spotlight. It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that he is now selling insurance, though I would prefer the irony of selling used American cars.

At least he admits he struggled with it his whole life, just like Paul Barnes. But as for total honesty– he hasway to much invested to be totally honest.

Sorry Ben, we don’t do with ‘likelihoods’ We’re hard-core agnostics

Except, of course, that a punt at sleazy insurance sales (or similar) would be a suitably fitting ending for an envangalist tall poppy. Or a President of Exodus International.

Despite the hype, that’s all they’re educated for.

He did get a ‘degree’ from Oral Roberts ‘University’ afterall.

So, so, so, suitably named. It seems. It must be the American equivalent to Salisbury /snigger.

Richard Dawkins had something to say about the 50% and hardcore agnostics. i can’t remember what.

Insurance sales are useful, and usually and not necesarily sleazy. that’s why i prefer that he sells used AMERICAN cars.

And Dave– that’s exactly the point i was making about Paul Barnes. He, at least, learned from his investment and his heartache. i don’t know what is going on iwth him now, but I can respect him.

Hey I know how ticked everyone is about these creeps and the creepy things they do (i.e. taking away our rights and equality) but look at how powerful a support and allay they become when they finally do see the light and accept themselves for who they are. If there is any way for us to help him in this venture I think it would be awesome. Ted Haggard could speak out for GLBT rights and be a powerful voice for the GLBT Christian community and others. It is an amazing thing when that happens.

“The reason I kept my personal struggle a secret is because I feared that my friends would reject me, abandon me and kick me out, and the church would exile and excommunicate me,” Haggard said.

Sorry, I find this rather ironic. Yes, the churches belonging to the association that he was the President of, do commonly do that. As the former President of the association, did he work to change those attitudes or did he further entrench them?

That’s the problem with irony.

It’s frequently very ironic.

As the former President of the association, did he work to change those attitudes or did he further entrench them?

Touche.

“The reason I kept my personal struggle a secret is because I feared that my friends would reject me, abandon me and kick me out, and the church would exile and excommunicate me,” Haggard said.

So he becomes an evangelical leader who condemns the GLBT community. To further cloak his homosexuality he marries a woman in order to fit in……………I would call such a marriage an immoral, deceptive act. Further, he claims that he was sexually molested as a child in order to explain his homosexuality. Please, I have heard it all before.

I hope the ones at HBO get the rights to the song “What a Fool Believes” by the Michael McDonald of the Doobie Brothers because some of the words fit Mr. Haggard to the tee. At least the refrain “But what a fool believes he sees…no wise man has the power to reason away…what seems to be is always better than nothing.”

After three weeks of counselling, associates declared him “completely heterosexual.”

I remember hearing about that and thinking how years ago the Evangelical community would frown, if not completely rule out counselling because prayer was supposed to be the ultimate weapon against “the devil and his works.” But I’m sure he went to “Christian” counselors who probably prayed the bee geebies out of him. That they were able to turn him straight in three weeks is amazing, and I am surprised they haven’t shared their secret with the rest of the world! Heck, patent it and get it on the market! They could get a spot on the QVC or do some infromercial. (This, of course, I am saying sarcastically).

The sad truth is that Haggard, and many like him, approached God with “I am not” rather than “I am.” And thinking that God would continue the facade is an insult to what God and religion is all about. This idea of being a straight person trapped in a gay man’s body has got to end. It makes for great drama, but it is destructive to not only the one who hates themselves for who they are (and not being able to admit it) but it also destroys the lives of others – those who are gay and are banished from their homes, families, friends, and society because of people like Haggard, and also destroying the lives of those who are straight and follow the teachings of Haggard and the like, and turn from God’s commandment of loving one another to that of hate.

Oh for Pete’s sake?! Just when will mainstream society quit with their holier than thou attitudes, hypocritical at best, “he who never sinned can cast the first stone”, “attend to the forest in your own eyes, before looking for the splinter in another’s”, and so on and so fifth! The age-old hypocrisy stands, regrettably, and anyway, Ted’s a good looking man, no wonder he’s fodder for the gay cannon! Leave him alone. Go attend to your own sinful state first, all ye self-righteous hypocrites!

Local baptist: Since you quoted the stone passage, let me be the first to point out that it was TH who picked up the first rock. Any other rocks flying are incidental. Had he– like Lonnie Latham and a host of others– not been busy casting stones, I, for one would never have paid the slightest bit of attention to him, any more than I to any other religious person whose beliefs i do not share.

When JC wasn’t predicting the end of the world, he was pretty much telling people to leave everyone else the hell alone and take care of the poor. Seeing as his predictions didn’t come true, I would guess that many of his followers pretty much felt that they don’thave to listen to anything else he had to say, either.

“The reason I kept my personal struggle a secret is because I feared that my friends would reject me, abandon me and kick me out, and the church would exile and excommunicate me,” Haggard said.

Unfortunately, Pastor Haggard, you were right. Your church’s and friends’ love was conditional – as is the love of the God they created in their image.

I bet it will be easier for you, in the long run, to choose a more loving faith community and a more loving God than it will be to change yourself so you can be conditionally loved. For your sake, I hope you will, and I wish you peace someday.

Ted’s a good looking man, no wonder he’s fodder for the gay cannon! Leave him alone. Go attend to your own sinful state first, all ye self-righteous hypocrites! – Local Baptist

I hope that he has a good life. I didn’t fire him from his position as an evangelical leader. I do find it humorous that he and his cohorts believe that being homosexual is something that should be cured and that can be cured in a matter of weeks.

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After reading almost all about Ted Haggard, from his involvement with ex-gay ministries, to the fall with the gigolo, then the claim of being heterosexual in three weeks, and now his coming out as a “loser”; it seems that he is looking for a good reason to convince himself there is no such thing as being him, then he seeks to throw away everything that is true.

He is living for people and people’s ideologies. Ex-gay ministries had already affixed the type of God they want to worship (the kind that seemingly rejects his own creation), so it surely would be much easier to create the people’s vision of Mr Haggard. But that is wrong.

I believe he should stop seeking acceptance from the church, and start seeking it from God. And he must refrain from indulging in self-pity and really start to look carefully across his life, what really went wrong. I am sure the summary would be the conclusion we already know.

When he seeks God first without people telling him how God looks at him, and learn how to be Christ-like instead of an ex-gay machinery, he will indeed find out and affirm the real him.

Yuki wrote: I believe he should stop seeking acceptance from the church, and start seeking it from God.

Actually, as i have often said, the problem is his– and every other exgay I have ever encountered– lack of acceptance for himself. The problem is his self hatred– as all of his whining clearly indicates.

Oh brother, we’re obsessing because he’s a “handsome man?” First of all, that discounts the lesbians. Second, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Third, why are YOU so obsessed with his “handsomeness?”

If gays became extremely interested in the doings of people only because of their looks, james dobson and fred phelps must be the pick of the litter.

And I might not like men that way, but even I can tell you they’re not.

Local Baptist, I think you are mistaking honesty for self-righteousness. When someone like Ted Haggard comes along and starts preaching that homosexuality is a sin and against the laws of God and yet PAYS to do the very thing he preaches to others is sinful, then it is only right for others of faith to point out that he needs to have a taste of his own medicine.

If I said or did something wrong I would hope someone would point it out to me if I was too ignorant or blind to realize it. There is nothing wrong with being wrong as long as you make a conscience effort to fixed it. We of the Orthodox tradition called this “penance.” You realize what you did, you admit what you did, you understand what you did was wrong, you as to be forgiven, and you make amends for it.

What Ted Haggard did went way beyond being hypocritical in condemning homosexuality yet engaging in homosexual sex. First, he denied who and what he is. Second, he married a woman to cover it up thus affecting her and his children. Third, he used religion as a means hide from who and what he really is. Fourth, he preached hatred and thereby gave the green light to his follwers to hate and oppress the LGBT community all in the name of Jesus. Fifth, he is blaming a supposed incident (or incidents) in his childhood for who he is today. And if he is making it all up then he is guilty of lying as well.

We of faith cannot judge his soul as that is God’s ultimate duty, but we are allowed to discern and evaluate those who claim to be leaders of faith. One means is to match what they say with what they do. Ted Haggard’s words and deeds don’t match. As Christians, it is our duty to expect certain qualities from those who claim to be shepherds in the Church, and to have the wisdom to know who and who not to follow.

The stigma of homosexuality is so strong it often clouds one’s perception of reality. Larry Craig and Ted Haggard should form a club.

Oh…wait…nobody would join that club. There’s no such thing as an I-am-not-gay gay club…except for those club meetings at the local parks and the public bathrooms in almost every city.

I’m wondering if a “heteros” night at gay bars would work.

I have to admit, I feel for people in that situation. Where their livelilhood is build around a community that rejects so strongly a part of these guys are. You hear something for long enough and you believe it yourself.
Who amoung us wouldn’t try to change if all of our family/friends/loved one’s would reject us. Not to mention that our entire living has been built around this community.
That being said, all those factors cannot change the fact, that we are what we are.

I am suspicious of convenient stereotypes to explain himself.
The supposed molestation. And eventually, seeing a prostitute and using drugs as if this is what being gay is about and inevitably what you become?

He said it himself, that he feared being left isolated with no one and no community or family.

That is a POWERFUL incentive and a coercive standard by which gay youth are most vulnerable. And many don’t survive it. Or they don’t without some serious battle scars in the form of addiction or some other dysfunction too eagerly exploited by ex gay ministries or other anti gay organizations.

This isolation is exploited and at the same time denied.

So that coercion becomes a lifetime of massive denial and dishonesty..

So, that ‘choice’ is clearly between a rock and a hard place and the demands on the gay person go ignored.
And the straight folks around him don’t care about what DEMAND that is.

They don’t care what a COMMITMENT that is, and how virtually impossible it truly can be.

But since THEY don’t have to feel it or do it, how convenient for THEM.

Ask a straight person, or better yet a homophobe what it would take for THEM to be a homosexual and they answer their OWN question about why a gay person can’t be straight on a dime.

Even better, considering all it does take for someone gay to TRY….then it also answers the question of how wrong it is to change someone or make them think it’s possible, or that it’s not supposed to be their nature in the first place.

Contributors, I wish I had seen the diatribe after Jimmy Swaggart committed adultery and then went on global television with his pathetic impassioned “Oh God I have sinned” baloney rubbish. I will neither justify nor protect what I wrote last time. Ted is a good looking man, I cannot comment on Lesbians because I’m male, not female, and I also do not know all sides of the story. But with Swaggart, I had been a long-time “follower” but have had absolutely nothing to do with him since his “fall”. Swaggart has still to apologize to the gay and lesbian world for his hypocrisy in his sermon “The Ring of Fire”. I do hope Ted finds solace somewhere and comes to terms with who and what he is and wants. Although I am married, I am also gay, so I can feel for his emotional turmoil. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!

Yet another victim of homophobia and self-loathing. Too bad he doesn’t have the fortitude to simply say “I’m gay, deal with it” rather than continue the hateful and damaging charade.

Local Baptist, it’s fine that you’re gay but that you chose to marry a woman.

I’m under the personal belief that marriage is NOT anything EXCEPT a contract between two people who support one another. Love, attraction, sex, gender, and orientation can have nothing to do with it if one chooses.

That being said, I’m curious as to how you came to loathe our “cannon” (“canon?”) because if you’ve “been there, done that” then you know that there’s no singular “gay” anything.

So if YOU, as a gay man, sees a situation and immediately latches on to whether the person in question is handsome or not, please know that that is YOUR doing and not anyone else’s.

Local Baptist – “Ted is a good looking man”
So what? Ted is in my age range, IMHO, his Heart is still in the wrong place and that makes him an ugly, messed up guy with plenty of unresolved issues. It’s not all about Good Looks! Wasn’t Pandora’s Box described as being Beautiful, but when opened….

If superfical people or things turn you on, go ahead and admit it. BTW you being married to a woman while admitting to be Gay, well that’s not a good situation either.

Que sera sera
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so am I. I will not defend nor justify my position. I am answerable to God alone and no man or woman can stand in judgement of me (Romans 2:1).

Well, in defense of Local Baptist, some people are bisexuals. I can understand there would be some confusion here on why he would choose to marry a woman. Bisexuals actually have a sexual preference. I already had my run with men so now I wish to be with women, but that does not mean I will not oogle at Daniel Craig when he is a topless James Bond.

Thank you, Yuki Choe, for your support. Yes, bisexuals do have a sexual preference. However, in all my years out-of-the-closet, I never did find THE MAN with whom I knew I would be comfortable, though not for the lack of looking. My last gay scene lasted 2 years but he wanted group sex and I did not want AIDS. What a choice to have to make? Then, because of this, we separated for a time and during this time I telephoned my best friend who now happens to be my wife of 19 years (we have been best friends since 1976). During the last 19 years I have not had any gay liaisons though I have been sorely tried and tempted. I choose to stay with my best-friend-wife because we are so good together. With God’s help, I can and do have a fulfilling sexual life, although my preference is still a man.

I have a question for L. Baptist:
Does your wife know?

Before you answer consider: Most wives of closeted gays men (bisexuals included) know but are afraid of the consequences and likely want to remain status quo. Or, if she has no clue, would telling her about your bisexuality destroy your relationship? And, in consideration of her, should she not know about your bisexuality?

And just because you had a bad experience with one gay man does not mean a gay relationship involves group sex or even fear of getting AIDS. Why didn’t you try to find someone else in the gay pool?

Funny thing, L Baptist. As a gay man, it never occurs to me to lump things together or give up completely. For example, i’ve known guys who want to have an open-relationship. I wasn’t up for that, so I looked for a guy who was also not up for that. There’ve been guys who wanted to tie me up, and since that wasn’t my thing, I said “no thank you” and looked elsewhere.
Never did it occur to me that I should give up on men entirely. I was single for like 5 years after coming out, went on a couple hundred dates, had a few iffy and short-live relationships — you know, something straight people don’t know anything about — and yet it never occured to me that I should switch teams. I guess that’s why I’m unfortunately almost to my 3rd year with my caring and hilarious partner, living together, and fully accepted by friends and family alike. Poor me. I could’ve gotten hitched to one of my galpals and avoided this whole stable happy relationship thing entirely. Darn.

cowboy, on December 26th, 2008 at 6:00 pm Said:

I have a question for L. Baptist:
Does your wife know?

Personally I think that if men or women inter into marriages without telling their partners that they have serious doubts as to their sexuality, they are committing a serious an immoral act.

Jason D: I like your sense of humor. My wife has known about it for 33 years and she loves me in spite of it! We enjoy watching TV and both of us just look at the men. When I see someone I like, I tell her – he’s gorgeous – wow, look at THOSE blue eyes (staring at his bulge, of course).
Swampfox: I have not committed a serious and immoral act. I have been faithful to my wife for 19 years. There’s no harm in looking at men while she watches straight porn on her laptop. 5 guys 1 girl. Now how’s that for immoral? Huh, dude?

Local baptist: i have absolutely no problem with it. I’m curious though. Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman with lust, he has ocmmitted adultery in his heart, or something along that line. Jimmy Carter got into trouble with that one.

How do you reconcile this? This is niether a trap nor an attack. Since you are a baptist, i’m curious how you reconcile this.

When I see someone I like, I tell her – he’s gorgeous – wow, look at THOSE blue eyes (staring at his bulge, of course).

This quote and the comment about Haggard’s “handsomeness” stand out to me. It occurs to me, L.B., that you seem to be pre-occupied by the physical appearance of men. Maybe this is why you could only find shallow partnerships in other men – because you were being shallow yourself. And in turn, you project that onto all other gay men.

And what kind of person makes strong comments and then immediately “neither defends nor justifies” them??

It is an easy way out; to take the “righteous” path and give up any romantic pursuance with the same sex. But it smacks of personal frustration and “swearing off men.” A certain Jewish gentleman, who shall remain nameless lest his Google alerts go off, pulled a stunt that I think is analogous, though he would never say so – allowing him to cloak himself with “righteousness” whilst spurning any man that he ever was or ever might be involved with. “Relationship revenge,” I guess.

Ah yes, men are highly “visual”, it’s genetic done . . . nexxt.
Men in general can have difficulty emotionally navigating same sex relationships because of the homophobic environment and negative heavy handed absentee father images we grew up with in this country. The fear of violence / death can be a terrible rutter for any relationship; the filters are endless.
Calling LB “shallow” is a negative assumption, and a critical one at that. I would not go so far as to judge him, as it’s really none of my business how he chooses to make himself happy. He has found something that works for him that he likes, obviously.
Good deal LB, kuddos to you on that one. Your wife looking at str8 porn online is pretty cool. You sound like you might be a fun couple. Open honest humorous sincere oh, and sexy.

LB Thanks for sharing. But your situation is HARDLY unique or workable for most couples.

You couldn’t cut it WITH the few gay men you tried to. But that is the plan, after all.

This is one of tne of the reasons why I hate the calculated isolation and dislocation by heterosexuals of gay youth to form the bonds and learn to be romantically healthy that is so vital for them in adulthood. Heterosexuals deliberately interfere with this process and further erode it by availing themselves of the opportunity to be with gay people when they are vulnerable in some way.
Far more predatory then what they accuse gay people of being.

It’s always at a serious cost.

Since gay people are already a minority, the pool WOULD have less opportunity for gay couples than hetero ones.

And despite there being much more of us heteros…our romatic lives suck too, and for the same reasons.

Usually unrealistic expectations, and lack of tolerance for the most minor of disappointments.
Which is something the gay/straight incompatibility factor is rife with.

However YOU manage your life with your wife, LB would be fine with me, but for how it’s EXPLOITED by those with the agenda that such unions be done as a matter of course.

I live with two wonderful, sweet and very attractive gay men. It kind of creeps me out to think of the sorts of women who’d want to seduce them.
I certainly wouldnt.
It also creeps me out that the agenda of so many ex gay groups IS predatory seduction in many ways.
I also know a very sweet gay man married to a woman. Whether she suspects or knows, I have no idea.
But it was marriage born of FEAR from him that his family and her family find out he’s gay.

The pressure to keep it hidden has given him serious health issues like high BP, since he was all of 21 years old.

His wife likes gay men, so who knows.
I won’t tell. I love them both and will be there for them, whatever happens.

The point is, LB…if gay people, especially gay youth were accepted and supported as a matter of course in our society, I wouldn’t think twice about the union YOU have because then I’d assume it was a free choice without coercion or any of the usual pressures to conform.

And you should understand why any of us would be suspicious since such unions ARE coerced and gay people AREN’T encouraged to be together as they should be.
I wish you well.

I just hate the idea of how unions like yours are waved like a flag around gay people as if it’s the ultimate happiness in life to make THEM happy regardless of the cost to the couple involved.

And please don’t play like it has nothing to do with you, it does.

BTW, LB…
Sometimes people with an agenda describe their gay lives in such stereotypical terms, one would have to wonder about the validity of what you said.

That happens a lot too.
Why ALWAYS promiscuity? Why ALWAYS lack of endurance? Why ALWAYS some other kind of dysfunction so often expected among gay people?

And ultimately blaming being gay or homosexuality for lack of success.
As if heterosexuals don’t have those problems too, as I said.
But THEIR orienation doesn’t get blamed. Nor are the whole of hetero indicted by the acts of a minority of their number.
it gets VERY tiresome to have an honest discussion at that point, know what I’m saying ?

Relationship Revenge? I’m not sure what you mean, Emily K. That’s an interesting concept. Who would benefit from such a thing?

Maybe I understand. For a long time I built up walls when guys tried to make friends with me…partly out of fear**. But, when I finally let my defenses down and let that one special person into my heart I discovered a whole new world.

But Relationship Revenge sounds like self flagellation. The only person it hurts is yourself.

(**okay…okay…mostly out of fear.)

cowboy, I think ultimately, that’s what it does. But at the time it might seem like one is saying “you can’t have me, NO ONE can have me!” seeking vengeance on “all man-kind” or something. But truthfully nobody will know what they’re missing anyway. It’s not really a rational endeavor.

Ah yes, men are highly “visual”, it’s genetic done . . . nexxt.

Wow, somebody’s a bit defensive…I would agree that yes, men can be described as “highly visual” in specific cases, especially sexual cases, but the quotes I pulled seem to demonstrate a mere superficiality, not a simple “visual nature.” Of course, I strongly advise against becoming trapped in generalizations, because you can suddenly find yourself having some strange “friends.”

Emily– that Dennis prager thing was an absolute hoot!

“Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual natures desire for variety for the rest of his life.”

and these are the people that presume to tell US how to live? There are so many things wrong with this statement I would have to spend an hour just listing the reasons, let alone correcting my bad tpying~

Emily – - – What fear in you makes you feel the need to judge the hell out of LB? Did he hurt you in some way? Did he hit a nerve you need to work on?
I find your dissemination of his love and sex life unfounded tedious and highly unprofessional. The guy had a 2 year relationship with a guy, and has been married in my book, forever, and you have no idea what his decisions were about men when he engaged with his now current wife. That seems neither shallow superficial easy way out or any of the other tangents you seemed to billow off on. Your bulldog projections in this case are not serving to include nor heal, but to hurt and separate. I had some questions I wanted to ask LB, but he seems to have left the discussion, and it could be because of you. My sense is he feels judged by you and in turn is angry with you. Even if everything you said were somewhat true, you are delivering it like a dead fish in paper bag on doorstep.
You are an author of this sight. Your co-authors do not engage the anger you seem to emit. Would you consider taking sight of their evenness towards patrons and conduct yourself a bit more professionally?

Well, Devlin, I guess we’ll agree to disagree. But it seems you’re the one with the struck nerves. quite the contrary, I’m not angry at all. I only posed a theory. One that, for some reason, despite the fact that I was not referring to anything YOU said or wrote, greatly offended YOU personally. I suggest you confront face-to-face whomever is calling YOU shallow. I certainly have nothing to do with that.

Well, everyone, judge on, condemn on, heap for yourselves greater judgement upon your own heads. That is your perogative. I have no need whatsoever to “reconcile” anything. Jesus did talk about looking with lust in one’s heart, a man for a woman, but obviously leaves out the part about gazing with utter fascination at the construction of the MALE physique with lust (yes), desire (yes), and all those physical attributes about a MAN instead of a woman. Why did He have 12 disciples, all men? Why were women not included? I am not going down the road of “Corpus Christi” here, nor am I available to debate that film, but I can say to everyone it has been a long and difficult battle against the flesh – St.Paul (whom I detest) said that we wage a continuous war against our flesh – I wonder why he hated women so much and what that “thorn” in his flesh was – but so that I do not digress too far from the point I wish to make, is that I made my wife a promise to take care of her, she was prepared to put my “past” in the past and leave it there … she has never accused me about any aspect of my previous 25 years as a gay man … and we are still the best of friends, we care for each other deeply, we love each other not only as “conjugal rights”, a paper contract, but as fully as our limited capacity will allow.

She experienced a Temporal Lobectomy in 2005 that nearly caused me another myocardial infarction – yes, I had two within 22 hours of each other in 2002 – and was most relieved when she recognized me when she eventually woke up about 18 hours after the 6 hour surgery. Her speech and memory centers of the brain were still functioning – fortunately she developed speech and memory on BOTH SIDES of the brain, being ambidextrous, and the only slight manifestation of the surgery is a poor short term memory. She was retired from her employer early, put on pension, because the blackouts were exacerbated by office stress. She has been at home with me since February 2008 and we are together almost 24 hours out of every 24 hours. That has not been easy either. She gets the physical attention she desires, I get the physical attention I desire, and we both serve the Lord at a wonderful Baptist Church where I am one of the organists. I do all the cooking, catering, shopping, washing of clothes (she does the ironing), washing dishes (she dries and puts away), make filter coffee (she washes the cups), cleaning the carpets and tiled floors (she dusts), she does not drive a car (automobile), and her pension is far better now than what she got as an employee. I have been unemployed for 8 years since retrenchment from a company that got 14 years of devoted service, mainly due to the socio-political situation and changes in the country in which I live. I am the wrong age, gender and physiognomy for employment.

Therefore all ye humanoids who would have criticisms of me, attend to the forest of sin in your own eyes first so that you will see CLEARLY to find the speck in my eyes. Okay?

Do unto others as they do unto you? Or do I have that wrong? Of course, forgiveness is easy. It’s easy to say “I forgive you” for your multitude of remarks, comments, questions that I feel are far too personal to disclose on this type of anonymous discussion board, criticisms, judgements, persecutions, and all those other stones that people pick up to throw at another so they will feel better in themselves for having pointed a finger at another sinner saved by Grace.

I withdrew from the discussion for a few days because both my wife and I were infected by a severe case of chronic bronchitis thanks to a selfish person or persons who considered their attendance of Christmas Morning service to be more impiortant than the germs and bugs they would so easily disseminate to otherwise healthy individuals, giving no heed whatsoever to their sneezing and coughing.

Selfishness is, after all is said and done, the single most common cause of ALL relationship breakdown. (and this is my own quotable quote. I created this statement back in 1984, and it is commonly accepted as an irrefutable fact!)

L.B.

Emily, you just can’t seem to put that pointy finger back in your pocket now can you. Seems you and Ted Haggard have a very similar root issue. You both share a view of that river called DeNile.

LB Thanks for coming back and dropping a line for us to see a glimmer of what looks like a very deep complex and loving relationship with your wife. Your struggles are intense. Struggles come in different packages for each of us I guess. One of my greatest lessons/struggles in this cultural war, is to watch and hear others on their path without judging it. Very tough, very confusing at times. But I think it’s the way to heaven in the here and now. Loving without judgement. Maybe that’s why some verses in the Bible are the way they are. Curve balls to brush up the judgement lesson. It always makes a difference when we allow ourselves to walk a short time in another’s shoes. If we all did such a thing, there would be a lot less judging flying around the chicken coupe, and a lot more compassion and closeness to each other.
I appreciate your openess. Your shoes are well traveled and I feel your journey. Walk on brother.

Local B– I want ot say something. I asked you a question only. As I said, it was neither an attack nor a judgment, just a question. I apologize sincerely if you saw it that way.

I’m not a religious person, though I was one twice in my life. first as a jewish boy, secondly as an almost-a-christian young man. I ultimately discovered that my mind doesn’t work that way. so to me, it is always interesting to try to understand how religiously-oriented minds work, how they see things. And you answered that clearly in your last post.

But i do want to underline. It was intended neither as a trap nor an attack, just a aquesiton.

No matter the sacrifices one might have to endure…the implication by Mr. L. Baptist is: we gays can find happiness with living with a heterosexual partner. And as Ms. DuCasse alluded to: many anti-gays can exploit what Mr. Baptist is doing to further their gay-is-malleable mantra.

There needs to be a distinction about the kinds of love…and I don’t want to discuss lust. I have a love for my Sister. I have a love for my dearest, fondest male friends. But that isn’t the type of love we are discussing. It’s the deep abiding love that Mr. L. Baptist might not have experienced…even in the two years he had a relationship with another gay man.

“might not” is the key phrase here. We have no way of knowing.

And we have no way of certifying, in spite of what Mr. Local Baptist typed on this blog here, that he is indeed “faithful” to his wife.

Does watching porno together satiate their lustful love and keeps their fidelity intact? Or would Mr. L. Baptist feel that occasional trysts in public restrooms (ala Larry Craig) is still being “faithful”. Remember, Idaho Senator Craig said he was NOT a homosexual…

What. Ever. LB.

Happy New Year.