Ex-Gay Watch

His story has been told, the words have been said, and people are being comforted and inspired by them every day, whether or not they have heard his most recent views.

Noe is not available at the moment or I’m pretty sure he would respond himself (and probably will at some point). I will let him speak to his sexual orientation. However, from my discussions with him, I know that statements such as yours are one of the key reasons he wished to no longer be included in the oft maligned “I Do Exist” video. If you are truly interested in his story, and not just the earlier bits that validate your own beliefs, then you must understand what Noe means when he says he does not regret his ex-gay experience — as painful as that part of his life was.

He does not regret it because, like all growth, it is sometimes a painful and necessary chapter in finding the truth about ourselves, and what God wants for us. It wasn’t long after the video was released that he began to feel that he was portraying an illusion which others were taking as reality and using that for support. That’s a tremendous responsibility; how does he answer the emails from people like you when he was beginning to realize that the life portrayed on the screen was not real?

I know of the pain and grief Noe has suffered, and how sad he is for others who suffered because of “I Do Exist.” Watching you force him back into that one slice of time, while disregarding “his most recent views” as though they were insignificant, that truly is a cruel irony. It’s also an excellent addition to the reasons Throckmorton should dispose of that video and fully inform those who purchased it of what he knows now.

Anything else will need to come from Noe, but let me assure you, it ain’t pretty. If you want to think of his statements in the video as some sort of proof for the life portrayed therein, you will need to put the truth aside, and enjoy the fantasy.

Anyway, thanks for your honesty in the past.

I suggest you might consider an apology to Noe for that statement, the implication once again being that with which you disagree (now) is somehow less honest than that with which you agree (before).

It was candid and honest when it was said, wasn’t it? And, to Yuki, remember that faith without works is dead. And I will continue my comments privately via email. I don’t believe in spamming up people’s blogs with unrelated comments and the intolerance for my beliefs and personal attacks are already starting, which I don’t want to continue here. I meant no offense to Noe or anyone else, so if any was taken, it was because the offended chose to react so.

Peace.

Unfortunately Drew, David got his point through first that you only choose to listen to things you agree with. You are willing to parrot to me one in James that says that “faith without deeds is dead” talk, but chose to ignore two verses in Romans and Galatians that clearly states SALVATION is by faith, not by works. Even when James talks about faith, it is the act of faith which is the deed. So what is the act of faith, your human endeavour to change to someone you are not (desires of the flesh) and grieve the spirit, or the actual fruits that come from the Holy Spirit. To take the words “deed” and trying to justify it as action will get you no favours from the Almighty God. What “deeds” you want more? Crucify Christ again?

You also choose not to answer pertinent questions I presented to you. Why? Because obviuosly you cannot answer it. You seem to represent following Christ as a single “sin” eradication process, but have you lied? Have you idolized anything else? Did you put anything above God? You cannot go to a site which states all the real truths about homosexual issues only to attempt to twist it your way (in any case, we all know who is the “offender”), but then close one eye to other matters that trully constitute wrongs in Christ.

So before you attempt to validate your “I only have to pretend to be heterosexual because I believe being who I am is a sin” which Christ himself said nothing, perhaps you should concentrate on divorcees which Christ clearly said something strongly about. Is it okay?

I also said:

By the way, since you are so adamant to call homosexual a “lifestyle” choice, would you extend the same equality in choice for heterosexuals who wish to leave their “lifestyle”. Ya know, they are all over MTV and movies these days. Gosh, more and more young ladies like Anne Hathaway, Sierra Miller are getting nude for sex scenes. You even recently have Christina Ricci and Justin Timberlake doing it on the cinema. Shakira singing about her hips and Fergie singing about her butt and Akon that wants to Smack That and 50 cent that wants to PIMP it. Surely with such promotions and marketing of such activities, you would of course strive even more to educate the public about dangers of the straight lifestyle, right?

So why not start an ex-straight ministry? Ex-straights have rights too! And there are more heteros to change and make money from with video testimonies. Maybe “I Do Exist 2″?

You have yet to address the heterosexual lifestyle issue. Why not start with that, Drew?

My symphaties Drew. No one is intolerant of you here. That is why so many ex-gays do come by and comment. But I personally feel a burden for you people. You guys and gals are intolerant of yourself cause you choose to let people define what God they preach on you.

Drew said:

…the intolerance for my beliefs and personal attacks are already starting, which I don’t want to continue here….

I am really beginning to feel a sense of empathy some for ex-gays. There is so much insecurity with them that questioning their ideology is deemed as “intolerance for beliefs” and commenting on what they said is taken as “personal attacks”. Hope Drew learns that the walk with Christ is to be focused on Christ, or Drew would be lost focusing on the walk.

I have been very fortunate to find the support of people like David and others at XGW. Conversely, there are those out there who still refuse to accept the comments I have made since “I Do Exist”. These same people would demand a statement in support of their own world view, using words they would choose, without regard or realization they may be objectifying a person with thoughts, feelings and experiences. The very reason I withdrew my support of “I Do Exist” had to do with this need to be “right” by those arguing the issue, and what I consider a very caustic by-product; that is, the dehumanization of men and women grappling with the very deep and complex issues of faith and sexuality. I do not say that I regret having gone through the “ex-gay” experience, as it has afforded me insight into my own life and the lives of others caught between a rock and a hard place. The bottom line is we are told we must choose sides; that there is something inherently “wrong” with us if we experience homosexual attractions. In the guise of “support” we are offered chastity, sacrifice, self-loathing and a neverending climb to an impossible summit. At the top are laid the idols of a movement gone wrong. For many, “I Do Exist” is such an idol, a symbol of the elusive goal that must be sought and achieved at all costs. To those people I would offer a sincere apology and a plea to reconsider their perspective on what the Bible has to say to the LGBT community. I believe it speaks hope and not condemnation; inclusion and not rejection; mercy over sacrifice and love over hate.

By saying Noe was “honest in the past,” he is calling him a liar today. How Christian of him.

By saying Noe was “honest in the past,” he is calling him a liar today. How Christian of him.

Emily, how do you know it is a him (Drew as in Drew Carey) and not her (Drew as in Drew Barrymore)?

I was actually careful to not say him or her and just call the commenter as Drew. All my points were straight and honest without the slightest hint of even minimal abuse. David made a very mature statement too. Yet, I still cannot get it, as to why Drew said we were intolerant of the views presented and there were personal attacks starting? How odd and sensitive.

I have known more male drews than female drews, so I just made an assumption. I do the same thing with names that are mostly female, but have male owners: Dana, Tracy, Ashley, and others.

Noe, thanks for your comments. I too am against the dehumanization and objectification of human beings, which is part of why I am against the homosexual lifestyle and mindset. Emily, that is in absolutely no way what I implied, your inference is totally off. What Noe said in his interviews seemed entirely candid and honest to me, so I considered it honesty. Period.

Personally, I also don’t believe there is something inherently wrong with experiencing homosexual attraction, but I do believe there is something wrong with accepting, indulging or acting on said attractions, which the Bible (among many other things) indicates. I do also agree that the Bible etc. say we should love and accept everyone, but that doesn’t mean we should love and accept their behavior. Just as I can love someone who believes differently from me, or engages is behavior with which I don’t agree. Christ Himself condemned and denounced certain behavior, while still clearly displaying love for all of God’s children.

Maybe Noe’s experience with the ex-gay movement was different from mine.

I too am against the dehumanization and objectification of human beings, which is part of why I am against the homosexual lifestyle and mindset.

As with heterosexuality, homosexuality can be all about dehumanization and objectification. But it can also be about care, compassion, tenderness, beauty, trust and love. If only you knew how bizarre and nonsensical your statement sounds to those of us who have had the joy of truly loving and being loved by someone of the same sex.

That’s why I specified “part of why”, as I know that happens in heterosexual relationships as well.

Personally, I also don’t believe there is something inherently wrong with experiencing homosexual attraction, but I do believe there is something wrong with accepting, indulging or acting on said attractions, which the Bible (among many other things) indicates.

Would you still feel that way if the Bible condoned homosexual relationships?

Drew,

You may step out from behind the facade any time you wish. It took us a day to remember why the surname was familiar.

Shows the undeniable link between internet porn, chat rooms, sex addiction, and homosexuality and the deceitful and predatory nature of the “gay” lifestyle.

That’s the blurb for the book you have planned, yet you dare call other people intolerant?

That’s us you are slandering with those lies. You are painting a false and harmful picture about all gay men and women. And you are fooling nobody but yourself.

Tragically, your religion demands none of that from you. (Or does it?)

But who can blame you, really — surrounded as you are by people who have spewed out this type of ignorant venom for years. Dehumanizing is the only way to describe it, and I see no love for us displayed anywhere. I do see references to all the usual suspects.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Who was hiding? I didn’t tell a lot of things about myself, because it just didn’t seem important at the time. Am I supposed to give a full biography when I post somewhere online? Since we’re talking about hiding, what’s your story? Why haven’t you mentioned your entire life history? But, now that you bring it up, I really don’t mind. I’m actually flattered that my surname was familiar at all! You think you’re not noticed, and then this! Sometimes you’re more well-known than you realize, I guess.

It’s not intolerance, it’s not lies, it’s not slander and it’s not prejudice, all depending on your point of view. I experienced what I did first hand, and I have a right to express and share my history, just as anyone else does. It is my honest experience. I am trying to help people you want this kind of help, just as Noe’s experience has helped so many, myself included.

You see no love displayed because you don’t want to see any. You must really want to further propagate victim mentality and attitude by insisting that everyone hates you and are out to get you. Truly sad. I only wish the best for you.

Drew — this will be the one and last time we indulge you like this. It’s your claims and your attitudes that are under the microscope, not our lives.

Given the accusations you’ve hurled at people here, and the wild claims you’ve made about yourself, then yes it would help if they knew who you really are and what your background is. You needn’t bother : that’s why we’re here.

And no Drew, I know not everybody hates me. Really, it’s the least thing I worry about.

For good reason.

I have my partner of 16 years, for a start. He loves me. I have my family — all of them. They love me, and him. His family enjoys having me around too. And we have our many friends, work mates and so on. I am very content with my life, and ache for nothing. Except sleep.

I’m no victim, and I won’t be your punching bag either.

Alas, you’re ego has also got the better of you. I’m aware it’s a common self-opinion that gets deliberately built by the ex-gay process into those people who think they are now conquering heroes (and the rest of us condemned to hell)… but you’re not famous. I’d be more accurate to describe the familiarity as with your parent’s infamy.

Your parent’s words (your mother’s mainly, it seems) speak for themself. I gave the link, and people can do their own reading. With all respect, she is your mother afterall — but she is plainly a sandwich short of a picnic when it comes to this subject.

Going far beyond any expectations informed by her religious beliefs, her writings are a torrent of bile. Paranoid. Ignorant. Hateful. Abusive. Rants.

If you knew anything about homosexuality, or gay men and women, you’d know just how wrong she is. I also get the feeling you wouldn’t challenge her even if you did know better.

To return to the subject of this post, I’m unsure how Noe’s experience has helped you. Surely you mean “only part of his experience” — and let’s forget everything else that Noe has witnessed and been through.

I think there is a great deal Noe, and us here, could tell you. Would you listen?

If it’s the last time I’ll be “indulged”, then what does it matter how I answer that last question?

Again, if anyone wants to continue this, feel free to email me.

Thank you as always for your keen eye grantdale.

Drew, this is a place for open discussion. If someone wants to talk with you, they have your link. Please stop soliciting private email as an alternative for discussion here.

Ah yes, the inverted ex-gay thought process…

We indulged you about ourselves, and said that was to be it. The last question has nothing to do with that. (We don’t ask questions of people we’re not speaking to, you know.)

Off-line discussions are also not encouraged here. We understand why you’d want to invite private conversations as soon as you’ve made your claims and the questions begin. It’s a way of hijacking a post, and avoiding open scrutiny.

Good grief. There’s an enormous factory in Korea making these people isn’t there?

It’s an interesting thing, really. I’ve recently been following websites of this sort, observing the conversation between the pro-heterosexuals and the pro-homosexuals. There has been a pretty interesting correlation. It seems that as soon as a pro-hetero says anything on the subject (generally non-offensive and without malicious intent) the pro-homos viciously turn on him/her, often with personal attacks. For people that always want to focus on love and acceptance, homosexuals are hardly practicing what they preach. Thank you for reaffirming this surprising observation.

Grantdale typed:

Tragically, your religion demands none of that from you. (Or does it?)

Another clue should have been when Drew typed:

“…which the Bible (among many other things)”

the other things are: the Book of Mormon, their Prophet T.S. Monson, etc. So, yes, his religion demands it of him. (Though, I have never heard of homosexuals mentioned in the BofM.)

Two hugs to grantdale.

I actually wasn’t referring to the Book of Mormon or the prophets, although those are good points too, now that I think about it. I mostly meant science, anatomy, biology, etc. So, no, our religion doesn’t “demand” it of us, in fact, nothing is demanded, only commanded, and not from man, but from God. Of course we are always free, obviously, to choose whether or not to follow.

I will quote from my recent email to grantdale (since public discussion is encouraged after all):

It’s not paranoid if it’s real. It’s not ignorant if it’s educated and informed. It’s not hateful if it’s motivated by love. It’s not abusive if it’s motivated by desire to help. It’s not a rant if it’s documented and researched. What makes you think we know nothing about homsexuality when I have told you that I have experienced it first-hand? I’m pretty sure I know a thing or two about gay men as I used to be one. I can understand the hostility though, I am the very antithesis to this entire website! All I can share is my experience, whether or not it coincides with certain persons’ beliefs.

And I’m certainly not afraid of public scrutiny (despite how outnumbered I am), since I have after all authored a book on a controversial topic.

Grantdale said:

Tragically, your religion demands none of that from you. (Or does it?)

Actually, I think it is not the religion that demands, but rather the people who present that religion demands. I think I mentioned to Drew about the heterosexual lifestyle twice (and twice he just ignored it), just as he ignores almost every other thing Christ himself mentions, like in regards to divorcees. And remember, these are the true demands of the religion we are talking about here. But funnilly enough, as what Christ demands is virtually rejected by all, some represent homosexuality as rejected by Christ which is nonsense.

I always believe when what people say about the religion replaces the core values of the religion itself ala James Dobson or when you allow someone to become that religion ala James Warren Jones without questioning anything, that is when you become a zombie listening to instructions from other humans beings rather than your own spirit or conscience, whichever it may be instead of having a real God over your life and living.

It is like eating. I know surely that we all need to eat. I am sure my spirit and concience asks me to have my full three balanced meal a day. But what if someone who represented Christianity tells me I am supposed to enjoy my every meal as my last supper and asks of me to swallow the ideology of eating just the holy communion small piece of biscuit mixed with some blackcurrent juice? I would be an anorexic. Just like Drew believes in sexual anorexia here, based on what people tell him to believe about his orientation when, again, Christ said nothing.

Can you possibly cite any single instance of me ignoring or disregarding what Christ says? Especially since you claim it was “almost every thing”. I told you how I feel about divorce, how is it even related?

If you believe and understand that Christ is and was and always has been, as far as human record goes, then you know that Christ had a hand in things from the beginning, which includes the prophetic writings regarding morality in the Old Testament, in which case Christ had an AWFUL lot to say about inappropriate sexuality, homo and hetero alike.

Look who’s sounding like a zombie! I have had my issues with the human element of my religion and faith, believe you me, which is why my faith now is much more focused and centered on the divine. Man doesn’t tell me what to do. God has His servants on the earth, but I always rely on the Spirit to confirm the truth of what they may be saying.

I don’t believe in sexual anorexia at all, I just don’t believe in sexual gluttony. There have to be standards. Just like I wouldn’t eat in excess, or something that’s not good for me, I don’t believe in behaving in sexual behavior that I believe to be harmful, physically and spiritually.

It’s not hateful if it’s motivated by love.

Funny, I always see signs by “Christians” at Pride celebrations that say “Truth is Hate to those who hate the Truth.” But what they fail to see is that Hate is Truth to those who find Truth in Hate.

I’m pretty sure I know a thing or two about gay men as I used to be one.

I trust gay men who are STILL gay men. Ex-gays aren’t ex-gay because they saw that loving someone of the same sex wasn’t as vile, unbiblical, and physically unnatural as they originally thought. Just like Randy Thomas of Exodus thinks his lifestyle of drugs and sex in the 80′s was brought on solely by his attraction to other men and now denounces our “lifestyle” as if he knows what all gay men do because he “used to be one.” Gay people of my own generation have little personal knowledge of the “gay hedonism” that he put himself into.

And science has offered no proof that homosexual acts or behavior has any more harm than heterosexual behavior. In fact, MY behavior as a gay woman is the “safest” of the sexual practices. Lesbians are also known for being stereotypically monogamous (2nd date moving company, anyone?)

Mr. Andrew Graham,

I live just over the point-of-the-mountain from you. I would appreciate some clarifications after reading some of the FAQs on the home page on your Standard of Liberty website.

We can dance the semantics two-step but I would rather have a direct clarification. You say you are no longer gay and you don’t believe in sexual anorexia. That would suggest you are ruling out a life of celibacy. That leaves me to assume you are attempting to find a wife? I don’t see any other course of action for you…considering your Mormon dogma.

Drew said:

Just like I wouldn’t eat in excess, or something that’s not good for me, I don’t believe in behaving in sexual behavior that I believe to be harmful, physically and spiritually.

Then don’t. No one (here at least) denies your right to live you life as you think is best, or how you think God wants you to. But don’t expect that people will not be offended by and react to such Cameronesque tripe as this:

Shows the undeniable link between internet porn, chat rooms, sex addiction, and homosexuality and the deceitful and predatory nature of the “gay” lifestyle.

And most of us are all to familiar with this sort of double-speak:

As someone who has overcome homosexual attraction and left it behind…

And responses to those comments and others like them are not an “attack on your personal beliefs (the use of which for an excuse to avoid genuine discussion we may soon call “Ould’s Syndrome”).” You began your comments here with a condescending attempt to remake Noe’s experience in your own image, to turn what he has learned in life on it’s head so that it fits your own views better. It may have been dressed up in passive-aggressive style faux compliments, but it was still a personal attack far worse than the open and candid variety.

And when asked to apologize to Noe for basically calling him a liar, you chose arrogance instead of humility:

I meant no offense to Noe or anyone else, so if any was taken, it was because the offended chose to react so.

Blame the offended, just as you try to blame Noe for “not trying hard enough:

but the real gospel of Jesus Christ is crystal clear, and it’s true that Christ does heal us all, but we have to do our part and try.

By implication, you are saying that Noe didn’t “do [his] part and try?” Those who know a little bit about Noe here may indeed respond strongly to such comments, but no one here has been overly harsh.

Noe aside, the onus is on you to prove your position if you want anyone to consider it aside from yourself. You’ve not given a scintilla of evidence beyond your own vague interpretations to support statements made here and in your book preview. And when asked for something more than anecdote, you tried to take the discussion off the blog and out of the light of day.

If you wish to participate in future threads here, please support statements of fact or do not make them. And if you slip innuendo into your comments, don’t be surprised if others figure out what you are doing and call you on it.

David, I have never read so many unintended inferences in my entire life! You are putting words in my mouth that I swear have never been there. My original post was indeed a genuine and heartfelt note to Noe, saying what I’ve always wanted to say to him, since this is the first time I have ever had the opportunity to write something I was pretty sure he would hear. That was my intention. Period. I came back to respond because my character was brought into question, and I felt like defending myself. It’s not my fault if people choose to be offended. Personally, although sometimes baffled, I’m not offended by anything said to me here! Being offended is a choice, and I would rather not be. Noe’s words are still an inspiration to me. You can infer all you want, but that is your own doing. Innuendo? This is positively amusing!

And cowboy, to answer your question, yes, I am dating women, looking to marry. In fact, if you read the above posts, I’m quite in love with a lovely young woman from CA. (Direct enough for you?) I don’t believe a life of celibacy is necessarily what God wants for us, but rather that he wants us to marry and raise children and teach them of Him, eventually helping lead them (and ourselves) back to Him.

The fact remains that I am the antithesis to what this website purports. Incidentally, I tried to take the discussion off the blog for reasons I have already stated, but also mostly because I’m bored with it, it’s like talking to a wall (or, several walls?). But you’re wrong about one thing: I don’t have to prove anything to anyone.

But I never called anyone a liar. Rather, I ask any and all of you to apologize to me for calling me a liar.

Drew,

My heart goes out to the “lovely young woman from CA”, or any other person who gets dragged into the ex-gay mess. She could not possibly know what she is getting into unless she is also part of the ex-gay movement.

You can live your life as you please, and you have chosen to make your personal campaign against your own gayness a public cause at this time with your blogging and book writing. However, you, like so many before you, will probably look back on what you are doing now with great regret at some point in the future.

Your personal actions and statements extolling how you have “changed” may make you cringe in embarrassment, but they won’t sting anywhere near as much as the guilt over the people close to you that have been hurt.

Do your future self and this “lovely young woman from CA” a favor. Walk your current path on your own.

My word, may I just take a moment to thank everyone on this blog for letting me who I am? It’s good to finally get to know myself… < /sarcasm >

The path of overcoming homosexuality has been trod and passed for me! Let me make it clear that it has been close to a decade since I have put this part of my life behind me. It is practically ancient history. It’s not like I’m currently “going through” something, it is long since over. In fact, I sometimes don’t even think about it, there are long periods of time when it never even crosses my mind. I can’t imagine looking at what I’m saying now with regret in the future, since I don’t look back on any similar things I said in the late 90s with regret now!

Drew said:

I don’t have to prove anything to anyone.

“the onus is on you to prove your position if you want anyone to consider it aside from yourself.”

I might also add that you must support statements of fact if you wish to participate in discussions here. You can say any old thing you want, accurate or not, on your own blog or in your own book.

I guess I don’t really care if anyone considers it. I’m pretty much used to the idea that no one here is going to respect my views. But they were asked about and challenged, so they are being expressed. I have already stated my original purpose for being here. It has admittedly gone a little off course in an effort to defend my good name, but maybe this discussion has run its course. Like you said, I have my own book and blog with which to distribute my thoughts.

A young LDS man’s true story of being stereotyped and abused by peers as a child, lured into same gender internet pornography during his high school years, and recruited into cursory homosexual experimentation with older men while at Brigham Young University.

Cursory homosexual experimentation? Aside from blaming everything on others, what the heck does that statement mean? This is the basis upon which you claim to have been gay? This sounds more like Michael Glatze.

And if you “hardly even think” about the bad old gay days, why are you writing a book about it? Honestly Drew, Andrew, whatever, experimentation in college is hardly much on which to make a claim, particularly if, as you say, it was spurred on by an addiction to porn.

This is what I mean by facts. I’ve likely spent nearly as much time trying not to be gay as you’ve been alive, and yet you base your claim of “change” on experimentation during college? I suspect a lot more people are gay by that standard than either of us are aware of.

Drew wrote:

The path of overcoming homosexuality has been trod and passed for me! Let me make it clear that it has been close to a decade since I have put this part of my life behind me. It is practically ancient history.

According to his website, Drew Graham is 27 years old.

Yes, almost 28… And?

A reading of the book will help you understand better. It’s hardly limited to college experimentation. It started with childhood and continued, mostly exhibiting itself in high school and college, where I finally decided to take control. Porn was only one factor in the equation.

And if I really blamed everything on others, I would actually have accepted homosexuality as my identity, because I would have a perfect scapegoat! No, I decided not to blame others, but to recognize the root and cause of certain things, that’s all.

The book, as I have said, is an effort at helping young men and others (or their families) who experience unwanted homosexual desires and would like to know success stories of change. It was quite something to go dredging through the past like that, but if it helps anyone, which, incidentally, it already has, then it’s worth it.

According to his website, Drew Graham is 27 years old.

You have got to be kidding. That’s younger than I even thought. So, experimentation in the first year of college? That’s the most he would have time for if his statement is correct about when he last “put this part of his life behind him?” Drew, people that read XGW are accustomed to serious discussion. It is hard to take you seriously when even your own statements cast doubt on whether you were ever gay to begin with. This sounds more like a tad bisexual, if that.

And I’m curious, does your family own your publisher, Tidal Wave Books? I ask because the domain is registered to an “sgraham” and all the books printed by them are either authored or co-authored by someone with the last name Graham:

My Darling from the Lions, Janice Barrett Graham, 2005.

The Plan Revealed, Merrill Osmond and Janice Barrett Graham, 2005.

Giant Journaling, Janice Barrett Graham, 2004.

Let the Reason Be Love – Audio Version on cd. Read by Merril Osmond, 2004.

Let the Reason Be Love, A Song of Faith, Merrill Osmond and Janice Barrett Graham, 2003.

Coming Soon:

Captain of My Soul, Andrew S. Graham

It’s Perfectly Obvious, Janice Barrett Graham

Next time you drop by a blog, try being a little more honest with something like “I watched too much porn as a teen and experimented sexually my first year in college, but when I got serious I realized that wasn’t me.” But then you might also want to explain why you are blogging and writing books about something you are “so over.” It’s all a bit confusing.

Ok Drew, here is some info from a post on your blog from July 3. It’s an accounting of things that were going on at different milestones in your life. Emphasis is mine:

10 years ago I:

1. Was a senior in high school.
2. Was student body artist (unopposed in the elections).
3. Was “dating” the “love of my life”.
4. Was in and out of life-changing troubles.
5. Was leading the marching band.

5 years ago I:

1. Was plodding (and animating) my way through college.
2. Was made used to the idea of never serving a mission.
3. Was getting into the Harry Potter hype like you wouldn’t believe.
4. Was working on and off at the BYU Bookstore and living at the Glenwood (still my favorite college ward).
5. Had long since left the life-changing troubles from high school behind for good.

Assuming that the “life-changing troubles” were porn addiction and the “sexual experimentation with older men,” you state here yourself that these were issues “from high school” and not college. Did you extend the length of time you were involved in this for the description on your book? I can imagine that “freedom from sexual experimentation in high school” wouldn’t impress many readers. But more and more, this is looking like a brief, early chapter in your life. That does not discount it as something that may have been difficult for you, but it does lessen the impact of any statements of “change” and people should know that.

This kind of inconsistency is something we have become familiar with in many ex-gay stories, particularly when they are used for some sort of gain. And these came up after only a brief exchange on a blog. That’s not very promising.

There is a half hour (somewhat insightful) interview with he and his mom here. (podcast)

One quote of interest was this:

“My son’s therapist said that if he had not been addicted to same-sex pornography, he would not have had a homosexual-a problem with homosexuality.”

Also, based on her mention of “Dr. Robinson” in the interview, the mention of “Dr. Jeff Robinson” in her bio, and his connection with BYU, I’m assuming this was his doctor.

And the $64,000 question @ 22:40: “So when you see a handsome man, is there any attraction?” And then we get a 45 second response that begins with: “Well, here’s the thing…” where we then learn that it’s possible for a man to appreciate the attractiveness of another man, without being attracted to that man.

Perhaps he just forgot to say: “No, absolutely and miraculously not. No attraction what so ever. I’m sexually attracted to women now, in the same way and to the same degree that I used to be attracted to men. I am now fully heterosexual. In fact, being the heterosexual that I am, I struggle with lustful thoughts when I see a beautiful woman. Thankfully the Lord helps me to keep those lustful thoughts at bay as I look forward to having a rich and satisfying sexual relationship someday within the bonds of holy matrimony.”
–
The lesbian girl who called in at the end summed the show up best — eloquently and graciously — but the mother, pitifully, wasted no time in trashing what she had to say.

Noe’s words are still an inspiration to me. You can infer all you want, but that is your own doing. Innuendo? This is positively amusing!

Yes Drew. Then imagine the scenario when someone questions your past words, or your book, as insignificant.

I’m quite in love with a lovely young woman from CA. (Direct enough for you?) I don’t believe a life of celibacy is necessarily what God wants for us

So in face of equality, again I will ask. What would you do to overcome the heterosexual lifestyle? Would it be based on the same standards which require you to play-act another sexul orientation?

But you’re wrong about one thing: I don’t have to prove anything to anyone.

Then what are you doing here? Garner attention to get hits for your website? Promoting your book? Marketing “change”? Unfortunately, most people here do not “experiment” homosexuality, and unfortunately for you, their parents do not call it a sickness called “a homosexual”.

The path of overcoming homosexuality has been trod and passed for me! Let me make it clear that it has been close to a decade since I have put this part of my life behind me. It is practically ancient history. It’s not like I’m currently “going through” something, it is long since over. In fact, I sometimes don’t even think about it, there are long periods of time when it never even crosses my mind. I can’t imagine looking at what I’m saying now with regret in the future, since I don’t look back on any similar things I said in the late 90s with regret now!

I guess I don’t really care if anyone considers it. I’m pretty much used to the idea that no one here is going to respect my views. But they were asked about and challenged, so they are being expressed… It has admittedly gone a little off course in an effort to defend my good name

I am so happy for you that you have discovered that homosexuality is just not your orientation and is just an experiment with you. The problem is there is a difference between an MSM and a homosexual. Men who have sex with Men; some may as well be heterosexual or bisexual. So you are branding your “homosexual” experience on experimentation here.

Unfortunately, most homosexuals in the world can barely relate to your “experience”. When you go around telling people about your little “sexual experiments” as if it represents the entire gay and lesbian community, you are blatantly insulting everyone here. You are fortunate people are still talking to you and show you grace. But to respond in such disdain as to “defend yourself”?

Drew, look carefully, you are not defending yourself. You are defending the painting of your teenage life that depicts the wrong ideas about yourself, and totally the opposite of what other gays and lesbians experience. Then you are defending your right to parrot it as a fact about gays and lesbians. That amounts to fabricating and distributing lies and defamation.

A reading of the book will help you understand better. It’s hardly limited to college experimentation. It started with childhood and continued, mostly exhibiting itself in high school and college, where I finally decided to take control. Porn was only one factor in the equation.

Can you please tell me just how this is any different with someone of any sexual orientation?

The book, as I have said, is an effort at helping young men and others (or their families) who experience unwanted homosexual desires and would like to know success stories of change. It was quite something to go dredging through the past like that, but if it helps anyone, which, incidentally, it already has, then it’s worth it.

Yes, it would appeal to confused heterosexuals or bisexuals who wish to place their opposite sex experiences as their primary. No one born homosexual would ever brand it as unwanted. Unless. One thing. They are stigmatized and discriminated, and it is caused by the uneducated and unfounded biased claims you make right now. Or as in many ex-gays I know off, “if you cannot target them, target their paranoid families!”

David wrote”

And I’m curious, does your family own your publisher, Tidal Wave Books? I ask because the domain is registered to an “sgraham” and all the books printed by them are either authored or co-authored by someone with the last name Graham:

Perhaps Drew is facing the familial version of “pubish or perish.”

“Pubish”? I’ll assume you meant “publish”, in which case let me clarify that writing and publishing my book was my idea.

They were troubles that STARTED in high school. That doesn’t mean they exclusively happened in high school. And besides, I constantly hear gay people insisting they just KNEW they were gay when they were teenagers or very small children, so what does it matter that this happened when I was young? I’m sure half of the people here identified themselves as gay when they were teenagers. And I diplomatically answered the question on the radio because I knew that people wouldn’t believe it when I said I wasn’t attracted to men (which is happening even here and now). I answered in a way that I thought they would understand, about which apparently I was mistaken, clearly saying I am not physically or sexually attracted to men, but also saying that I’m able to look at a nice-looking human being without immediately sexualizing them (male or female… some people have a certain measure of self-control). It’s more complicated than sex, but since that’s pretty much what homoSEXuality is about (rather, that is a major difference between it and heteroSEXuality), it would make sense that you would choose to focus on it. As for the blog history, you also notice I put “dating” and “love of my life” in quotation marks. It was pseudo-dating, and to someone I thought at that time I loved, hardly to the love of my life. It was an unhealthy relationship, and those who most often visit my blog would know exactly to what and to whom I was referring. For the exaxct response you wanted to the question asked me, see my forthcoming book.

You have to be tricky with you lot because you nitpick, hence my careful radio answer. Now we’re getting into rhetoric and semantics. Spare me.

The lesbian girl said exactly what we expected an opposing caller would say. In fact, it’s something I would fully expect someone on this blog to say as well! I appreciated her comments because they were so transparent and predictable. The same old lines. Nothing new.

I am further flattered that you’re listening to our radio material and obviously reading up on our work, including my humble blog! Cheers!

Drew,

Perhaps you know what my next question is going to be. But, let me preface the question with some personal tid-bits you might find interesting.

I never saw any gay pornography until I went to college. When I was young I remember a magazine about bodybuilding at the local drugstore that intrigued me but the closest I got to gay porn was viewing some cigarette or razor-blade ads with hot-looking guys. One time I got a copy of the Advocate when the cover story piqued my interest but I knew I was gay long before I saw porno.

I look back and realize I spent a good deal of time in denial. With some peer pressure and a desire to be one of the boys I dated during high school and briefly during college. I had marvelous fun but I knew there wasn’t the deep interest in back-seat gymnastics at beer-can flats like my buddies had. I can truly say I was in love with one girl but fortunately she saw the obvious signs of my inadequacies in steaming up the windows.

I think John (and a whole lot of others know) what I say when I ask this question:

Are you SURE you will love a woman in the same manner as a full heterosexual?

I hate to think you might wake up one day with regrets.

I had family who insisted that I do as Steve (who is gay) and Bruce (who is also gay) who got married and had kids. In every instance my family gave me as examples of where gays can and do marry it took years but eventually these marriages ended in a messy divorce or shattered dreams. EVERY case! Even one where my Sister told me about a friend of hers that married a nice-sweet spirit that understood her hubby’s misplaced affection (he was as gay as they come) there is a very strained relationship where they simply exist in a huge home and sleeping in separate bedrooms. That’s not what I think Mormons would say is a very family-oriented ideal.

Would you hate it if you suddenly realized that peer-pressure, pressure from church and family that you made a terrible mistake. There is a high probability you would ruin your and some innocent lives. One day you could wake up with much the same revelation as Noe.

Wow, thanks for the audio link Emproph, that was quite illuminating. According to the audio, it’s a common story; he satisfies his same-sex drives during puberty through pornography and masturbation. In high school he took it further by meeting older men he found in gay chat rooms, having three encounters in all. The last was apparently an older member of his church. To his surprise, this left him feeling shallow and guilty, after which he apparently went for some sort of therapy.

Porn and anonymous sex shallow? Who would have suspected? And yes, mom does state categorically that “same-sex porn causes homosexuality.” The entire family seems to be involved in “fighting the homosexual agenda” with a passage from the Book of Mormon inspiring the site’s mission. I’m not usually so catty, but I suspect there is a closet door in Utah that will be flying open in a few years. Drew is gayer than I thought.

Maybe one day he will post at XGW about how he feels over the way he influenced people during his “ex-gay years.”

My comment go stuck. I can hear it calling, “release me!”

Drew,

I hope you don’t think we should buy your book. You should come here with an altruistic desire to bring the truth to light.

I think XGW is here to prevent the exploitation of the vulnerable and the gullible by making sure the authors/publishers are doing their best to present valid scientific data and not publish just for the money. I would like to hope you have the moral standards and reasons to publish..but I suspect when you are the author AND publisher there might be another motive. Would Deseret Book publish your book?

I know it’s hard to have you prove your intentions but reading the Standard of Liberty website and other nuances I see here I’m guessing there are other factors at play here.

In fact, it’s something I would fully expect someone on this blog to say as well! I appreciated her comments because they were so transparent and predictable. The same old lines. Nothing new.

I am pressuming you are talking about me (correct me if I am wrong), but it is because dear, you are still not answering the issues I presented:

- You claimed to have answered, but have not, on the divorce issue.

- I asked you to cite any research in regards to change, since you claim “it’s often successful.” You have not shown a single piece of study to back it up.

- How you would address the heterosexual lifestyle? Silent.

- Single sin in the world worth eradicating? No comments.

- Holy spirit or the works of the flesh? Quiet.

- Even, where and when did I “personally attack” you? *Mute*

(If it is so transparent and predictable, why do you only respond with something like)

“Hear ye, hear ye… Drew is saying, look it is….

My testimony, My experience, My sex-life, My blog, My book, My radio spot, My….

Everything I say is so because I say is so, because I am Andrew Graham.”

Drew, the problem is the majority here say it is not so. So what are you going to do? We already know you and your childhood, your porn, your experimentation, your blog, your confused heterosexuality, and the entire “you” package you are promoting in your blog and book. So? Must we all agree with you? So who is being transparent and predictable here?

David R — you’re correct, I think. It doesn’t take long for elements in the story to become rather less than compelling. Or even, beyond that, frankly absurd.

You might enjoy “Our Story” too: noting, as you no doubt will, the references to “crushes on girls” and the time “the girl he adored” decided to become engaged to someone else. Some looking at body-building sites, some porn, some on-line chats, some ridiculous fumbling to satisfy the curiosity… all done in episodes amounting to a collective time of, what?, months… and we’re apparently done with the gay and onto repression. Or are we.

Another bloated ex-gay stretch, for The Cause.

(Did I mention I have a book coming out?)

Emproph — correct, he’s The Doctor. Where he’s coming from is all too plainly laid out. Equally plain is his heavy use of classic techniques of “break them down first, then rebuild them in one’s own image.” I’m sure all the parents — and numbers of the clients — must love him as an extension of their own controlling tendencies.

For someone bisexual, or in this case only experimentally homosexual, such tactics are probably tolerable, and at least somewhat reconcilable. For others, they are equally classically known to traumatise when the newly imposed self-expectations fail to match with life’s reality. At what point, and how, does one attempt to reconcile the hatred that has been reinforced by such techniques with a need to get on with a peaceful life?

Well, one could become one of those ex-gays that have been “changing” for several decades. A constant reinforcement of hope as a substitute for actual change.

But too often — as someone now crippled — they’ll explode out of their shell, arrive on “our” doorsteps in a drive-by indulgence and (in the same of mode of self-destruct) proceed to fulfil every absorded myth about how they think gay men behave.

To answer my own question since Drew did not, mom and dad do own Tidal Wave Books according to the website. Again, nothing wrong with keeping it in the family, but there is a certain achievement associated with gaining the respect of a publisher for your material. Using a vanity press, for instance, can tend to cast an unprofessional shadow on a work since a big reason for using one is the lack of interest by a professional house. Having mom and dad publish would have to be even less impressive, particularly when only family members are on the list of works. Finding someone not related to you to put this one out might have been a better choice.

This was a difficult process, but Daniel [Drew] was very desirous to repent and root out his bad thoughts and behaviors. He was very eager to at last become the person people had always thought he was.

Most of “Our Story” left me on the verge of nausea, but this one sad quote makes me feel sorry for Drew, along with so many who have found themselves in the same loop. And it’s an excellent illustration of what caused the author of the post so much pain.

- You claimed to have answered, but have not, on the divorce issue.

I don’t recall having seen that answer either.

Outside of the Biblical bounds (adulterous cheating or unbelief) of divorce and remarriage…

If you believe and understand that Christ is and was and always has been, as far as human record goes, then you know that Christ had a hand in things from the beginning, which includes the prophetic writings regarding morality in the Old Testament, in which case Christ had an AWFUL lot to say about inappropriate sexuality, homo and hetero alike.

Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

What say you Drew? Do you think that they also, the divorced and remarried, should be put to death as the Bible commands?

How about Leviticus 20:13? Do you think those of us who accept our homosexual lot should be put to death as well?

More importantly, how do you expect people like me to view your non-condemnation of such a position to be indicative of Christian (unconditional) Love?

Actually, the Leviticus commentary only applies to those who do not believe that when Christ came, we should not follow the old laws because the New Covenant has come.

However, in the light of his mother’s involvement in his son’s confused repentence, I will tell his mother as the Word in the New Testament says in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35… KEEP QUIET….

And since you are so busy with parroting rubbish about the homosexual tragedy that you have no time to buy something to cover your hair, then Aunty Graham, please (1 Corinthians 11:6) CUT IT OFF.