Ex-Gays Initiated Into Manhood Through New Warriors Training Adventure
In an attempt to turn ex-gays into real men, some in the ex-gay camp recommend a weekend retreat called New Warriors Training Adventure to their clients. An interesting and enlightening discussion of the New Warriors program can be read at Dr. Warren Throckmorton’s blog , where the following retreat activities are described as taken from a recent article in the Houston Press.
• Blindfolded walking tours in the nude;
• People blowing sage smoke in his face while 50 or so naked men danced around candles;
• Men sitting naked in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called “The Cock”;
• Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer.
As Throckmorton notes in a follow-up post, there was a rift a few years ago amongst the New Warriors when a local branch hosted a talk by NARTH founder, Joseph Nicolosi.
The New Warriors Training Adventures are put on by The Mankind Project (MKP) and are described eloquently at their website as an invitation to step forward and look in the mirror. However, red flags are raised soon after by a barrage of yes or no questions phrased in such a way as to make one feel wimpy who dares to answer “no”.
- Do you have the courage to face your own fears and insecurities and discover the tremendous power and beauty that lies within you?
- Are you willing to step into the fullness of who you really are?
- Are you willing to discover the real joy and terror of being a man?
From the descriptions given by the Houston article as well as commenters at Throckmorton’s site, it appears the New Warriors Training focuses more on terrorizing than discovering joy. Participants are literally stripped down, physically and emotionally. In the article, one woman retells her husband’s description of an activity.
…everyone was sitting Indian-style in a big circle in the lodge when the man leading the group said, ‘If you wish, you may reach over and grab your brother’s dick. If your brother doesn’t want your hand there, he can remove it.’ Well, my husband told me he just froze. And from that point on, he just wanted out.
According to Dr. Throckmorton, many of the activities sound like group therapy, and, in fact, part of a wrongful death lawsuit currently being leveled against MKP, and featured in the Houston Press article, is for practicing psychotherapy without a license.
Of course, as with any controversial practice, there’s at least one positive testimonial to counter each negative. It becomes interesting to note, as pertains to our interest in the retreats, that the New Warriors Adventure Training Retreats are attended, and in some cases led, by gay men. Furthermore, we’ve heard no reports of the gay men questioning their sexuality after having positive experiences at the retreats. Apparently, gay men can be initiated into manhood and remain gay. This would seem to fly in the face of the reasoning used by NARTH and Richard Cohen in their recommendation of the $650 weekends to ex-gays.
There are no cautions or disclaimers listed at the New Warriors website. In fact, it seems mandatory that prospective attendees be kept in the dark about just what goes on there. However, I was able to find this warning from one doctor, who is not connected with the ex-gay movement.
I don’t, however, believe the program is appropriate for everyone, and so I don’t send everyone across the board. I don’t send clients who are exceedingly fragile or suicidal. I don’t send clients who are in active alcohol or drug addiction. I tell them to get sober first. I don’t send clients who have unresolved sexual abuse issues. I encourage people to do their work around these issues before attending a weekend.
This doctor’s disclaimer, according to NARTH’s research, would exclude most, if not all, gays or ex-gays from eligibility for the New Warriors Training.
The Houston article goes on to describe the follow-up Integration Group (I-Group) meetings that participants can attend for eight weeks for an additional $190.
… where men discuss how to incorporate the organization’s philosophies into their everyday lives. Suggested activities to do during the Integration Group meetings include shaving another man’s face, kidnapping a member of another Integration Group, and changing clothes with another man.
Ex-Gay Watch is interested to know if any of our readers have attended the New Warriors Training Adventure. Our concern with the program relates mostly to its prescription and potential harm to those seeking ex-gay therapy. But whether your experience was positive or negative, we would like to hear about it.
Addendum: Since posting, we have received a copy of the MKP’s position statement (PDF) on reparative therapy from earlier this year.
I dunno, but debating with David (or Mike) reminds of the situation in which the wife asks her husband if she looks fat. If he says “no,” the wife gets angry and says “you’re just saying that to be nice! Why don’t you tell me the truth?” If he then says, “well, you’ve put on a few pounds, but it doesn’t bother me” she gets even angrier and starts screaming: “OH SO YOU ARE CALLING ME A HUGE FAT UGLY PIG, HUH?!!”
I think both Joe and me have responded responded reasonably and sincerely. I find it hard to believe that you think Joe Kort, who has more than proved his credibility as a counselor and human being, should not be given the benefit of a doubt over this issue.
Like I said, Chris Vogel didn’t have the decency to approach most of the people he levels accusations at and let them answer for themselves. Because he only wanted to hear the answers he wanted to hear, and only from the people he wanted to talk to. He has a flair for hyped up prose (“erect phallus…bone chilling tales”) but his reputation will eventually go the way of Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair, who also thought publicizing your name at any price was worth it.
Joe K, a quick yes/no question (we hope):
with “There is no verbal abuse, disrespect, sleep or food deprivation of any kind at the workshop.”
Do you categorically know if this proper restraint applies to every MKP event?
Yes, or No, will do
But if yes, I guess a rebuttal of other claims is in order…
—————————
Risk — the brother-outlaw has the perfect answer:
Q – does my ass look big in this dress? A – I love you.
Q – do I look fat? A – I love you.
Q – I shouldn’t eat that cake, shouldn’t I? A – I love you.
etc…
(and, of course, being the perfectly horrid bother/s and sister that we are … we took advantage, and spun it … if said other sister ever turns up in a loud frock or bad shoes or wicked hair… we say very loudly “I love you”. She knows what we mean. Gawd, she hates us so very much at those times.)
“I find the concept of trying to find one’s masculinity perplexing. We are who we are. If we can learn to accept ourselves, it really shouldn’t matter how butch or fem we might appear to others.”
Bang on.
I would add that those who go on voyages of self-discovery may discover things they do not like. You pays your money and you takes your chances. But the only thing, in my experience, that is worth discovering is an honest appraisal of who one is, who one would like to be, and who one would not like to be, followed by a consciousness of the things that can be changed, an acceptance of the things that cannot, and the wisdom and willingness to know the difference.
I couldn’t imagine myself going to one of these weekends. It would be (to me only) just, too, well—-silly. But then I’m very comfortable as a man, and I realized as a very young man that “Know thyself” and “To thine own self be true” are very practical pieces of advice, however hard they might be to implement.
Plus, the ideal of masculinity, even though touted as a cultural concept, is in fact always filtered through the individual and the individual’s consciousness, belief system, and perceptions. For myself, I’m a very masculine man, and most people think of me that way. But I’m also really clear that I’m a Really Big Fag, without a straight bone in my body. I call men honey, kiss my straight buddies hello, and would pass for straight (does not equal masculine, so DON”T start) in any group of strangers.
But then, I am willing to see myself for who i am, and also willing to accept that vision.
Both this group and they ex-gay groups are metaphors for accomplishing this goal. Unfortuantely, the ex-gay metaphor is not very reality-based so, not surprisingly, the results are not very reality based– i.e., none of these dicta is usually achieved.
Warren Throckmorton has received messages from NWTA participants who say their experiences in the group were incompatible with conservative Judeo-Christian teaching.
One participant blogger states:
Whether that’s true or not, the NWTA’s sexual and religious incompatibility with conservative Christianity again suggests to me that ex-gay advocacy groups such as JONAH and NARTH are unwise to refer ex-gays to NWTA.
I believe these ex-gay organizations should be held legally and morally liable for continuing to offer such referrals.
Joe Kort, an ally of the ManKind Project, and activist Wayne Besen both say on their websites that ex-gays may refer people to NWTA but not vice versa.
Is it the legitimate responsibility of therapeutic and pseudo-therapeutic organizations to pro-actively exclude individuals who may be harmed by involvement? If it is, then have the NWTA events done enough to exclude such individuals?
“If it is, then have the NWTA events done enough to exclude such individuals?”
MKP is damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.
Anyhow, Warren; no cruising, no sex, no hook-ups on weekends.
There is a difference between a conservative Christian and a fundamentalist, and the latter might find the incorporation of certain classic Native American rituals as honoring the four directions and the sweat lodge as “pagan” and “Satanic.” These have been the most vocal critics of MKP; personally I accept evolution, the Big Bang theory, and a pluralistic attitude towards religious faith. But everyone is beholden to their own subjective view of life.
“Is it the legitimate responsibility of therapeutic and pseudo-therapeutic organizations to pro-actively exclude individuals who may be harmed by involvement?”
There is nothing harmful about the MKP weekend, regardless of what they want to get out of it.
“If it is, then have the NWTA events done enough to exclude such individuals?”
MKP has already issued a statement affirming that it does not serve the intentions of the “ex-gay” movement, and having said THAT, boy does Mike Airhart’s second question annoy me. If one can say that much of the “ex-gay” movement is driven by religious fanaticism, the nature of Mike’s questions evinces an almost corresponding anti “ex-gay” fanaticism.
Sorry, Mike, we are not THAT paternalistic, and we do honor, at the least, the basic principles of free will with regards to what choices adults make.
Honestly, and I say this not as a representative of MKP, but independently: Mike, you remind me of my older brother when he became a born-again radical Marxist. No concession in a debate was good enough for him — he wouldn’t let you go unless you agreed with him 250 percent.
Rick, the Houston Press effectively documented several cases of harm. It identified the victims and therapists who witnessed abuse and neglect. Your behavior, and the public silence of the MKP leadership, have only confirmed the newspaper’s concerns about harm, secrecy, lack of accountability, lack of concern for those harmed, and intimidation of anyone who dares to question the program. Thank you for proving our point.
“Rick, the Houston Press effectively documented…”
No, Mike, the documentation was extremely ineffective, as I already detailed. You are demanding MKP apologize for things that never happened, and for what the organization was not responsible for.
But there is no point debating with a fanatic beholden to a righteous cause, though you might want to leaf through Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer” and find yourself.
You must be kidding. Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
I’m closing this thread. If and when the discussion resumes on a new thread dedicated to this topic, civil debate will be expected.