Ex-Gay Watch

STEVE, my love. I really, REALLY want to see you and Jim soon.
I love you two so much. Is Jim going to perform “The Zero Hour” again locally?
Hope so, I want to see it again!
Hugs…

Regan, Jim will be performing Zero Hour in San Francisco beginning next month. The details are on my blog. Or will be soon. It’s also been optioned for New York. Hopefully, we’ll open in the Spring.

Steve,

For your own information, Dianne and I have been married for 24 years. I couldn’t keep a relationship with a guy for 6 months especially in the pre-AIDS days. I was young and believed in having a relationship with a gut buying a house with a white picket and living happily ever after…Unfortunately I was a dinosaur…my gay friends told me to wake up and smell the coffee. I was young, educated, a body builder and attractive. I couldn’t understand why male gay relationships didn’t work (and I wasn’t the only one crying the lament). I eventually did become one of the typical gay zombies of the early 80′s. I slept around, Studio 54, Fire Island, The Hamptons. i also was the kept-boy of the McCarthy era Roy Cohn. So I had the opportunity to meet the upper echelons of New York society. And to be honest with you, it was pretty depressing. Then AIDS hit and about that time Jesus saved me. I wasn’t looking for Him. He pursued me. A troubled gay man that I met through a personal ad introduced me to Jesus after sex one night. He informed me that God didn’t want him to be gay and then he turned to me and said, “and God doesn’t want you to be gay either”. Can you believe that he actually brought a bible that night and showed me the scriptures that condemened homosexual behavior (NOT HOMOSEXUALS) He told me that God loved me and that I didn’t have to be gay. That there was a difference between being homosexual and being gay.

Well you can only imagine how this got my attention. Well here I am because I listened to the voice and warning of God that night…and the same Good News is available to whomever wants to obey God’s call to sexual purity….Thank, AAF

Anthony,

I am glad you brought up your past.

There have been extreme issues regarding the truthiness (thank you Stephen Colbert) of your version of events. Wayne Besen talked about contradictions in your various stories. However since you will probably attack Besen’s credibility, I will use another source.

According to the Independent Gay Forum, you have told three different versions of how “God saved you.”

I see that you have tried to incorporate them all in your answer. But I am confused by something:

Shortly thereafter, the AIDS epidemic broke out, and Falzarano watched a good number of his friends die of the disease. Falzarano became convinced that these misfortunes were due to the fact that homosexuality was inherently unnatural and immoral. As he later related during an appearance on “Good Morning America,” “I … realized, when I began to see 35 of my friends die of AIDS, that I probably made the wrong lifestyle choice.” Subsequently, Falzarano left the “gay lifestyle.”

But then there is this one:

Falzarano married his wife Diane in 1983. However, he continued to be plagued by fantasies about men, which he tried to suppress. Then one day, a year after his heterosexual wedding, Falzarano received a call from a former boyfriend who was dying of AIDS, who urged him to get tested. Says Falzarano: “I remember hanging up the phone and kneeling down on the floor, and it hit me that I had slept with over 400 people in the 1970s. I said, ‘God, I must be infected.’ … So I prayed: ‘God, if you can give me a negative test result, I will kill this [homosexual orientation] off inside of me.” Falzarano says he received his “miracle” and tested negative. Afterward, he underwent counseling at an ex-gay ministry, which helped him eradicate his homosexual urges altogether.

and finally this one:

Version Three of Falzarano’s story was told by Falzarano on a recent segment of “The Roseanne Show,” on which he made an appearance to discuss the topic of ex-gays. According to Falzarano, he had been living a gay lifestyle happily for nine years. One day, in 1982, Falzarano was walking down the streets of Boston when God spoke to him (literally, not metaphorically — Falzarano claims God’s voice was “audible”). God said, “Anthony, I’ve been patient with you for long enough. If you don’t give up the homosexual lifestyle now, you will die of AIDS.” At that time, says Falzarano, the number of AIDS cases in the country was very small, and no one had any idea AIDS would turn out to be a huge, fatal epidemic. But as a result of this direct warning from the Almighty, Falzarano became an ex-gay. Says Falzarano, “God pulled me out of the gay lifestyle before AIDS hit.” Moreover, claims Falzarano, until the warning from God came, he was not at all miserable as a homosexual: “I was happy being gay … until the voice [of God] came, I was really, totally happy. I was pretty well-adjusted in the lifestyle. I had no reason to change.” His only motivation to change was his “born-again” experience, direct from God.

By the way, Anthony – intentionally telling a lie is a sin.

Anthony, you did it again. You say you were a typical gay zombie during that period, but then you talk about how atipical your situation was. Your situation is so far removed from most of us that I don’t think you can speak in generalizations. The fact that you were the kept-boy of Roy Cohn, one of the most self-hating gay people ever, tells me a lot. Everything in your posts tend to be about self-interest, and you even say Jesus pursued you (again establishing how it is all about you). Still you take everything about you and blow it up to everyone’s situation. You situation is so particular that I suspect almost no one on the site could say they share similiar experiences.

Regan, you make a good point about caving and passing. In my exgay situation, they “taught” us how to be more masculine (I had nothing to change) or feminine. To do what? Pass among people who would be uncomfortable with us as gay.

Regan,

If you don’t know it, I am nota shrinking violet! I am an Italian from greater New York and an ex-gay activist. I have had to stand up to gay activists in DC, Gearldo on TV and James Dobson. I had to endure a betrayal by Exodus International (an organization that I had supported for over 10 years. I don’t take c#@p from anyone and I can’t stand phonies. So don’t think that I was a mild gay man that the Christian Right took advantage of. You think being gay is tough. Try being an ex-gay. We are the new minority!!!

Anyone in gay political circles will tell you that I have not “hid out”. I have been called by Almighty God to come up against the gay political activist (Goliath)

I have been called by God (to be used by Him) to set captives free from the bondage of homosexuality by truth. The gay political activists are lying to you. There is no gay gene! (well maybe Levi 501′s) The gay community has been lied to and a small group of courageous ex-gays have been called by God to let the gay community know that there is freedom from homosexuality and that NOONE IS BORN GAY! Check out the 3 “fake studies” that have been planted by the gay activists in the media. The SECULAR scientific community had discredited these studies have anyone of you taken the time to read Dr Satinover’s book “Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth” to see if I am telling the truth?

Anthony,

I suppose now you will talk about the lie of “gay bowel syndrome” and how gay men have a “short life span.”

and isn’t dr. satinover a member of NARTH, the group that freely uses the work of discredited researcher Paul Cameron?

mcewen, all three accounts are accurate. If you do the math you will realize that all three are on a time line. AAF

Anthony said:I have been called by God (to be used by Him) to set captives free from the bondage

All due respect, Mr. Falzarano, but I used to say stuff like this too when I was a part of the cult of conservative, literalist Christianism. See, I was raised in your religion. You happened upon it when you were sick of living the life of a pointless, loveless, plaything of a segment of the rich and famous. If I had reached your point and had been approached by someone at just the right time, I might have had the same emotional reaction that you had.

But then, I got saved.

Since you’re an admitted warrior in the culture war, do you ever get tired of your role? Do you ever consider being a maker of peace? Do you ever, in your secret and private heart, wonder if waging a culture war is really a Godly action? And if so, do you ever wonder if there’s a better way that we can, as people of integrity, deal with our differences?

Anthony,

There are many contradictions in your version of events.

Including:

Did you feel “empty” about the supposed gay life style or were u happy?

Did AIDS being widespread scare you or was it not a widespread disease at the time you became “ex-gay?”

Was your “conversion” the result of getting a negative HIV test result or God talking to you on the street?

If you can’t get your own story straight, how do you suppose you can tell gays that they can be straight?

Dear Aaron,

Noone is shoving the ex-gay movement down anyone’s throat. Isn’t the gay political movement in America shoving homosexuality down their throats? Most of the gay people I have known jsut want to be left alone. It is the highly paid gay political activists that are victimizing gay people/ Most of America would just leave gay people alone if they didn’t feel that they were being lobbyed by the gay political movement. America thinks that you are coming after their children and they’re not going to take it anymore. They have had enough. You will never get conservative Judeo-Christian America to accept homosexuality! That’s why the gay community is being rejected. You have allowed yourselves to be exploited by HRC and other orgs like them. When people feel that they have been forced into a corner they will come out scratching…

Anthony,

based on the presence of the “ex-gay” movement at this supposed Values Voters event in Florida and based on past actions by ex-gay organizations, including speaking at hearings against pro-gay ordinances (yourself included if I am not incorrect – I apologize if I am), I would say that your claim of ex-gays wanting to be left alone is a stone cold lie.

“Ex-gay” organizations are an extension of the anti-gay industry in that they undermine the rights and lives of gays and lesbians.

And by the way, a HUGE number of lgbts are raising children in this country. They aren’t just your children, they are our children too.

You see, you folks lie while appealing to emotion. You attempt to make us look like the outsiders, the oppressors, the invading forces. And that simply isn’t true.

mcewen,

I ahve just finished my first book on recovery from homosexuality which of course includes my personal testimony. It would take an hour to explain everything in context but I will take a second to try to put this in context

1. Around 1979-80 met a guy through the personal ads that was unhappy being gay and he was the 1st to plant the idea in my head that I wasn’t born gay

2. Early 80′s left NYC and moved to Boston to escape from the crazy NYC gay subculture and strted to look for monogamous gay relationships

3. Was on my way to a pornographic bookstore near the Public Garden in Boston when God’ the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, “Anthony, I have been patient with you long enough, if you don’t leave the gay lifestyle now…you will die of AIDS (1982)

4. (1983) married Dianne thinking that if I got married that the gay part of me would just “go away”

5. Christmas 1985 Ed Burns (my former boyfriend) called me to tell me that he was dying of AIDS and that I should be tested. i the promised God that if He gave me a negative test result that I would never sleep with another man and get psychological help for my homosexuality

6. (1986-1989) Began to gather research on the ex-gay movement and then found out about Exodus International I hope this gives you a better timeline!

Steve, of cousr I get tired of this battle. i wish that I could just disappear into the lilly white suburbs and live happily ever after however “to much that has been given, much is expected” Now I devote my entire life to trying to raech as many people (gay or straight) that might be interested in leaving sexual addiction behind. That’s what God has called me to and most of the time I enjoy my work. especially when I get invited to the wedding of someone that I ahve helped!

Steve, of course I get tired of this battle. I sometimes wish that I could just disappear into the lilly white suburbs and live happily ever after,however “to much that has been given, much is expected”

Now I devote my entire life to trying to reach as many people (gay or straight) that might be interested in leaving sexual addiction behind. That’s what God has called me to and most of the time I enjoy my work. especially when I get invited to the wedding of someone that I have helped!

Good Night All, I really have enjoyed this dialogue. Will try to catch-up with everyone tomorrow. Please checkout our website. It might answer some questions that you might have.

Best regards, Anthony

anthony,

your explanations of your contradictions are still faulty. you didn’t answer all of the questions I have about them – especially whether or not you were happy being a gay man or felt empty.

And forgive me if I don’t go by your webpage.

You see I take personal responsibility for myself and don’t blame my orientation for any faults of my own.

Anthony said:

I ahve just finished my first book on recovery from homosexuality which of course includes my personal testimony.

I knew it! There just had to be a tangible reason for you to have dredged up so much of this old manure recently, making the rounds on the blogs with a reinvention of yourself. A BOOK is in the works. I told Mike if I let you rattle on long enough you would tip your hand — you did not disappoint.

I suppose that also explains the link spam to your site which you continue to post despite my request that you stop. Your link is in your sig, people can find it if they want it, but stop using us for Google bait.

Anthony, if I had lived the life you seem to have, I would want to change as well, but quit blaming your own extremely lousy choices on being gay. And if you think you are a good witness for God, stop and ask yourself, in all honesty would anyone really want to be like you?

And yet it’s people like you that so many times are the face of God to others, and then the rest of us have to endure the legitimate hatred for all things Christian which you and others like you have instilled in them.

You’ve used up all the slack you are likely to receive from this editor Anthony, don’t expect any more.

I do not subscribe to any religious belief… and ‘revelations’ are as relevant as buddah’s, mohammed’s, st paul’s and the scientologists….

I definately cannot see how having sex with anything or anyone, anywhere, causes civilization’s decline. And even though it might not seem relevant to the topic at hand, How do ‘moral high-ground’ gay ppl or the ‘divinely morally superior’ say NO to public nudity or public sex ? Sex is like any other action, as long as you do it right it causes no harm… what’s the use of condemning it?

I also fail to see how homosexual, heterosexual or zoo’philia’ are on different ‘moral’ grounds.

Dear Anthony,

“Now I devote my entire life to trying to reach as many people (gay or straight) that might be interested in leaving sexual addiction behind. That’s what God has called me to and most of the time I enjoy my work. especially when I get invited to the wedding of someone that I have helped!”

At face value that seems like a good thing. One lil’ detail is you dont just try to reach out to the sexual addict if they are gay. It doesnt really matter if their sexually addicted or not, because as you recall, “The other reason that I sought healing from my homosexual orientation was that I began to see the emptiness of the gay male world”. In other words, gay=empty life, end of story, God assured Anthony so. Sadly for you, that isn’t necesarrily true for others or even most.
In conclusion, to purify the world as God would have it, “the ex-gay movement is a necessary organization for born-again Christians who follow the Holy Scriptures and believe that the gay lifestyle was killing us (physically and spiritually).” That isn’t a reason to deny gay ppl the right to marry or to have the right to not be discriminate against in the workplace. Why?, because AIDS=/=gay. And by the way, last I heard, the AIDS epidemic has been largelly controlled, i suppose due to the people creating awareness and explaining the importance of safe sex. Someone find me the link where I read that ^^.
I dont see the gay activists ‘reaching out’ to ex-gays UNLESS they do what you do. Vilifying(what do you want to call it?) and coercively forcing them to subscribe to your belief of homosexuality or else their this evil culprit of the talking snake which should be repelled and energetically but passively, fought against, no?

LOL. What a perfect little nightcap for a gay little weekend! Have fun polishing that turd, Anthony.

Thanks, XGW, for the necessary (if insufficient) round-up of the summit.

As for the “change or die” slogan, sure, out of context it’s a bit stark. That’s why this is called a culture war.

And “silence = death” – which for decades promoted the promiscuous profanity of “AIDS activism” – isn’t coercive and idiotic? Please….

Moderator Action 10/22: Long, rambling, off-topic comment deleted after repeated warnings to commenter.

Jeremayakovka, this wasn’t a round-up of the summit — just a couple of snapshots. Unless ex-gay themes were more prominent, it isn’t the responsibility of XGW to provide a full round-up of political summits.

Although I have found Anthony Falzarano’s comments quite amusing, a little does go a long, long way. Whether he is complaining about how he’s been mistreated by Exodus and PFOX, or inveighing against basic civil rights protections for gay people, or now preaching the end times, Anthony seems incapable of sticking to any one train of thought. It’s quite pointless for anyone to attempt to engage him in a discussion. His only purpose seems to be to hijack this site and make it all about Anthony.

However, I cannot leave unchallenged his remarks (maybe on another post) about how we’ll all come running to the ex-gay groups for help once we get old. Because, of course, being old and gay is such a miserable experience. THEN we will regret that we didn’t follow Anthony’s example and leave gay life and get married and blah, blah, blah.

As I read his remark, I thought of last Sunday afternoon, when I was together with a group of eight friends, all of us gay men in our 50s and 60s. We were at one man’s lovely home in the Virginia countryside, playing croquet, watching the sunset over the Blue Ridge Mountains, enjoying dinner on the deck as the stars came out. As couples, our histories ranged from the two life partners who’ve been together almost 30 years and raised a daughter, to our host and his boyfriend, who just recently met and started dating.

There was one trait we all had in common: we had all been married, three of us for over 25 years. Most of us were genuinely happy in our marriages as well, at least for some time. Yet all of us came to realize that we were trying to ignore or deny our true identity, and finally chose the path of honesty and self-acceptance.

Do we each have our individual problems and issues? Sure we do. But no more than all of my heterosexual friends and relatives of the same age. I can tell you one thing: whatever our problems, not one of us regrets living openly as gay.

So please all of you ex-gay “leaders”–whether Anthony or Randy or Alan. Stop trying to scare younger people with that specter of the miserable older gay man. I’ve lived the life you live right now, and I’m living the life of an older gay man, and I know which life is more open, more honest, happier, and healthier.

NickC,

Your post is great. I just turned 54 and my partner is 60. Most of our gay friends are seniors or near seniors. Many of them have been in long term relationships and some are newlyweds. We are all deliriously happy. Poor Mr. Falzarano. The only gay mentors he had were a crowd of drugging, self-loathing acolytes of the most infamous self-loathing, political animal of all — the detestable Roy Cohn. If my early gay life had been as nothing more than Mr. Cohn’s meat garage, I think I would have joined ANY religious cult that could got me out of that, including Scientology.

I think the irony is lost on Anthony that he basically became his idol. He is now the Roy Cohn of exgays, living in the closet, pretending to be straight, sublimating his homosexuality through his power exchange S&M-lite meetings with doe-eyed young men, which no doubt give him just enough of a sexual charge to go home and give it to the wife. It’s a perfect closet. (In S&M scenes, actual sexual intercourse is secondary or not even a factor).

Ignorantly, he thinks being gay is about sex. He thinks the fact that because he isn’t in bed with these willing, young participants that he’s not having a sexual encounter with them. I dare him to take another job and see how long his marriage lasts. Oh, but he can’t. GOD called him to rescue us all from the chains of whatever he thinks being gay is.

And we know what he thinks being gay is: a trophy prostitute for sick, closeted, gay-hating rich politicians. Yeah, that’s a life all of us have led.

You know, most of these “exgay” leaders came from the gay world of 25 to 30 years ago. They never bothered darkening the door of an MCC or finding a healthy group of people to hang around. They were all druggies, prostitutes and boytoys. And when they got used up, suddenly they found Jesus and it was the GAY’S fault that they were thrown on the side of the road and left by the garbage.

Falzarano claims that he knows Jesus, but his words, actions and behaviors betray him. The Church that he belongs to is the Church of St. Anthony Falzarano. And he worships at the image of himself with more enthusiasm than any supplicant I’ve ever witnessed. He is a sad bookmark to history still trying to be relevant.

Meanwhile, the gay world has passed him by. We have grown. We have become strong. And we are not the world he inhabited. He doesn’t know us at all.

I just wanted to add that Mr. Falzarano makes the same mistake that most other exgay leaders make: They have a bad experience in their gay life so ALL GAY PEOPLE ARE LIKE THEM and WE HAVE TO BE RESCUED. Then, after becoming immersed in the cult of conservative American Christianity, they lose any sense of reality.

Notice how in his last post, the right to be married is suddenly a “special right” for gay people, but for straight people, they can go do it as many times as they like.

Notice, also, that his fixation is on the political leadership of the gay world. Somehow he thinks that when they fight to keep us from being beaten, discriminated against and forced out of society, they’re somehow betraying us. He’s still got his rusty Roy Cohn armor on, ready to take on the homosexual hordes, just like his idol, Mr. Cohn.

His is a world of deceit, closets, backroom politics and strange men with Bibles getting him saved in a hotel room because THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS. Well, if the Religious Right continues to destroy this planet and goad us into war in the Middle East, these will definitely be the last days, but it won’t be because Jesus floats back. It’ll be because their apocalyptic drive to get us into a nuclear war will succeed.

Mr. Falzarano, you can be saved from this cult. And you don’t even have to leave your wife to do it. But if you think your cult has the Truth of the Universe in it, you’re more brainwashed than you realize. I know. I used to be where you are. Married and saving souls for this version of Jesus.

But then I had my own conversion experience that saved me FROM it. God can save you, too. But first you have to rid yourself of vanity of this form of literalist fundamentalism. If you can pull yourself away from that mirror, that is.

Anthony Falzarano wrote:

I sometimes wish that I could just disappear into the lilly white suburbs and live happily ever after,

So in addition to his self-promoting ex-gay rants, he has to toss some gratuitous racism into the mix.

Attention w****s don’t disappear into suburbs. They start ministries in order to turn others into mirror images of themselves.

Furthermore, Jeramayakovka, my original post pointed out that PFAW is a biased source of information, and I invited people like you and Randy Thomas to contribute broader perspectives regarding ex-gays at the summit.

For whatever reason, neither of you has done so.

Dear Mr. Falzarano,
My point was hardly about your being mild….but that you supplanted your original identity to be among the favored multitudes who are in control, where you as a gay man, wouldn’t have any such freedom.

And how ridiculous it is for you to even mention that there no gay genes, when MY genetic normalcy as a black woman never protected me or any other person of color from racism or discrimination.
There is no heterosexual gene either. And one’s genetics don’t have to be a requisite for equality. The only one is one’s HUMANITY.
I’m not impressed by you showboating your piety. You supplanting your orientation is a FACT.
You doing it to have greater freedom is a FACT.
And you standing in the gap between your motive and the motives of the straight majority to control who you were is a FACT.

I don’t need to be brainwashed by gay people and you insult my intelligence, and every gay person that ever lived with that cheap shot.

I have no reason to deny gay people exist. I have no reason to deny that gay people know who they are.
There is no reason for me to think a straight person would know what being gay is about better than a gay person.
I know you haven’t a clue what it’s like to be a black woman, but you wouldn’t dare lecture me on how I’m supposed to feel about it, or my experience as such.

The insult that straight people keep asserting is that they have all the knowlege, truth and inside track on the motives, abilities and realities of gay people…and clearly there are too many contradictions and hypocracies to count on that.

I have no reason to trust a heterosexual OVER a gay person on this issue, any more that I would think a man knows better than a woman what it’s like to be pregnant or get cramps.

The world is very ignorant about gay people, and FOTF, FRC and all the others should be embarrassed at all the money and political capital they are spending to mess up gay lives, when it’s not safe for an AMerican child to walk the streets or go to school in peace without fear of being shot.
And some Christians would have you believe that no culture EVER in the world has accepted gay people or the transgendered, when I know that’s also not true.
That only happened after colonization and their influence on other cultures. Sometimes brutal influence at that.

I don’t care what your religion is, you’re still called to treat your neighbor as you’d want to be treated. And straight folks don’t have dominion over anyone, let alone gay folks.
I don’t appreciate most religious people using every day and supporting every day our 21st century lives, but still want our culture to have a medieval attitude about homosexuality.
YOU took a step backward and tripped on your own doorknob…some of us are more surefooted in ways we don’t have to wear piety all over ourselves.

Capice?

I stand by this, it’s also a FACT. Straight people’s offense at gay people IS irrational, thoughtless, violent and incomprehensible.
Reactions can be entirely TOO out of proportion to reality, and inflammatory language used against gay people to incite fear and loathing.

And what really has come of doing so that is so remarkably positive that such actions should continue?

1. The destruction of relationships between gay young people and their families?

2. Abandonment or the threat of it?

3. Emotional blackmail and withdrawal of parental respect and love?

4. Harassment or violence at school so brutal, children as young as eleven years old take their own lives?

5. Words like faggot and other epithets used against youngsters who are percieved as weak, or gay?

6. Just the suspicion of being gay has destroyed many splendid and courageous careers, such as among military personnel. We’re at war, with an all volunteer military. How stupidly wasteful of valuable resources and training.

7. Children arbitrarily taken from their gay biological parents?

8. Children of gay parents expelled from school.

9. Children languishing in temporary homes or no home at all because of prejudice against nurturing gays and lesbians who want to love them?

10. Hedging civil laws with religious values YOU chose, when no one in this nation is to be compelled to follow a religion, especially at the suspension or sacrifice of their civil or HUMAN rights.

11. Nurturing isn’t exclusive to heterosexuals, and heterosexuals, were they such model parents wouldn’t HAVE so many of their children abandoned out there or abused or killed in the first place!

12. The Pope using inflammatory language like ‘violence to children’ to describe a gay person adopting a child.

13. The murders, brutal torture and unique ways in which gays, lesbians and the transgendered…even gay CHILDREN under age 16 have been murdered, are not perceived but ACTUAL.
Violence against gays and lesbians isn’t a theory, but a reality.

14. Gays and lesbians as a threat to all that we hold dear is a common, fear mongering tactic…that’s cost gay people much and threatens much more in their lives.
That gays protest this treatment, won’t stand for it…and urge the public to adopt policies that REDUCE this is called ‘the homosexual agenda’.
Well, frankly, why NOT have such an agenda?

Gays and lesbians are accessing due process of law, the courts, their right to free speech and peaceful assembly and trying to tap compassion among their family and peers to make their stand.
And doing so, in a world where some resolve their anger with violence.

Mr. F…..you have lost your sense of proportion like all the rest.
And shame on you.

Mike, I didn’t attend. I wasn’t aware that there was going to be an “ex-gay” presence there until reading about it on this site. So thanks, truly, for making some information available. I see also that Randy has posted at length about it on his blog. Whatever the cause, committed or partisan bloggers often call their opponents dumb, deluded, insane, cruel, cult-members, etc. That’s the nature of the medium….

Imho, the lead pic, with the foursome making a poster-child point about “hate crimes” laws, is savvy. While here at XGW you critically engage the “ex-gay” movement, that image does not specifically argue “ex-gay” vs. “ex-ex-gay” claims. It makes a critical point about gay identity politics and about law — with “MORE VALUABLE” meaning more exploitable and expendable politically, not necessarily more loveable. That it’s not specifically evangelical makes the point more forcefully, imho. Those older gay couples (of a recent comment, above) could have gathered for dinner and affirmative reminiscences while also weighing the claims the t-shirt makes.

Speaking from my experience, it’s not just hate crimes laws that would make me “more valuable” to the gay community. It would be continuing to participate (uncritically) in the gay subculture, period. I find that not being “in the church” means most gay men want little or nothing to do with me – it’s just not as much fun, is it?, to take people like me seriously when we’re not interested in playing innuendo-laden verbal games or in being the object of male vanity and insecurity, or worse.

Imho, the lead pic, with the foursome making a poster-child point about “hate crimes” laws, is savvy.

If, by savvy, you mean “misleading.” The hate crime laws are about people who are PERCEIVED to be gay or lesbian. I have been to exgay meetings and never have I met more effeminate men or masculine women. The exgays would benefit from hate crime laws at least as much as glbt persons.

Their fight against hate crime laws is nothing but political posturing to give the political right a reason to give them more money.

The “More Valuable” poster is deceptive in at least two ways:

First, it ignores that ex-gays are currently covered under the hate crimes law. The federal law, as it already exists, allows the federal government to help investigate and prosecute violent crimes targeting people specficially for their religion, among other categories. So if ex-gays suffer violence for expressing their religious beliefs about the immorality of homosexuality, that can be prosecuted as a federal hate crime.

Second, it ignores the fact that the extension of the hate crimes law to sexual orientation is not limited to homosexuals, but covers anyone targeted for violence due to his/her orientation–whether gay, straight, bisexual, or something else. If a gang of gay men decided to beat up some straight kid to get vengeance for past mistreatment, they would also be subject to federal hate crime prosecution. And if ex-gays are targeted for harrassment or violence because they have chosen not to follow a homosexual orientation, guess what–they too would be covered.

Ex-gays have no legitimate claim that they will be somehow “less valued” under a law that would actually extend them added protections. They are only interested in denying the protections they already enjoy to those of us on the other side of this divide.

Jeremayakovka said:

Whatever the cause, committed or partisan bloggers often call their opponents dumb, deluded, insane, cruel, cult-members, etc. That’s the nature of the medium….

I would have to disagree. By their nature of allowing spontaneous response, blogs may facilitate a less civil atmosphere for the debate, but that still depends on the participants. Your statement seems more like apassive-aggressive swipe at those you are debating here, i.e. “your statements are biased, opinionated crap but I won’t hold it against you because you can’t help it — it’s the nature of the medium.” Gee, thanks.

I find that not being “in the church” means most gay men want little or nothing to do with me – it’s just not as much fun, is it?, to take people like me seriously when we’re not interested in playing innuendo-laden verbal games or in being the object of male vanity and insecurity, or worse.

Again with the passive-aggressiveness. Have you read your own blog lately? Do you think it might be possible that your attitude toward gay people could be a big part of the problem, rather than your disagreement on issues? I know people from both sides of the ex-gay equation, liberal and conservative, faithful and not, and as long as there is civility and respect for the other person, I enjoy discussing issues; iron sharpens iron.

We have commenters here as well who disagree on many fundamental issues, but their input is valued because they add to the discussion without demanding submission in return. Heck, even some of our writers disagree on important issues. So I can’t go along with your assessment on this point either.

Try analyzing your attitudes, like the ones coming through between the lines above, rather than blaming some nebulous gay brotherhood for having rejected you.

David Roberts makes a great point. The wide range of posters here on this site is one of the reasons XGW is such a valuable resource. It manages to play host to some very devout Christians and equally devout atheists. It is also invariably FAIR to the exgays when it reports on their activities, even if it leans toward the pro-gay side. That’s one of the reasons people enjoy this site.

I have been in close dialog with exgays and conservative Christians for over ten years using the Internet, and I have noticed that exgays are simply incapable of handing a fair conversation with out, mature, happy, centered and emotionally stable, spiritually developed gay people.

The exgays do not respond to specific points made in posts. They resort to preaching and making huge generalizations. They do not listen. They are intimidated and scared of facing mature, happy gay people. They prefer the shelter of conversations with emotionally disturbed, unhappy gay people who come to them first.

That’s why this thread will never amount to anything. However, it has been wonderful getting to know and read the intelligent, thoughtful posts from the non-exgays here. Thank you all for your wonderful, rational posts.

Steve,

You are a master at manipulation. Congrats! Don’t be smug enough to think that we don’t know exactly what you’re up too. Your earthly book-intelligence has been “trumped” by the wisdom of God and you just don’t know how to handle it. The bible says, “God has taken the simple people of the world to shame the wise”

Before God saved me, I thought I was smart (just like you) but know I am wise. The 1st Proverb of the Bible says, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom and knowledge”.

Steve the problem with many of you on this site is that you have no fear of God left in you or you never had it in the first place. The fear that is mentioned here is not the kind that fear describes (that we should be afraid of God) because God is Love, but that we should be aware of just how AWESOME He is.

I always wondered why God saves some people and not others. Holy Scripture says that only God the Father can draw us to His Son Jesus. One day in 1983 God told me that if I did not leave the gay lifestyle NOW that I would die of AIDS. He literally scared the HELL out of me. He had been patient with me long enough and that if I didn’t start listening to Him I would be lost. That’s why I made it out of homosexuality. I learned a healthy respect for my maker and His awesomeness! And by reading the scriptures I was introduced to my Savior and ANYBODIES Savior who decides to obey His commands. “Humble thyself in the sight of the Lord and He will lift you up” Until you stop being so full of yourselves you will not be able to see past your arrogance. Your personal pride is blocking your view of the Savior of the world! AAF

Mr. Falzarano,

You just proved my point. Trust me. I was raised in your religion. I know everything you’re going to say before you say it. The brain-washing you’ve undergone has driven you far from reality. So far, you’ve not addressed a single issue put to you. Instead, you’ve merely fallen back to preaching the same tired “you people don’t know God like I do which is why I’m so much better than you are” sermon.

As for “fearing God,” if you actually read scripture, you will know that love is the opposite of fear. I no longer have a need to fear God. But you, apparently, do. You are living a life of deception, warmongering, lying and self-delusion. That is not the message of this Jesus you so proudly proclaim to follow.

What would happen to you if you decided to put down your weapons and became a man of peace? Do you think your version of Jesus would approve? Do you?

Sorry Steve, He’s on moderation now. He isn’t paying attention to any request made of him so the only step from there is banning if he can’t quit preaching with his ears closed and stick somewhere near the topic.

Ah, so my post makes no sense now. But I loved being called a master of manipulation by a man who has made manipulation and deception into an artform. C’est la vie.

Nick,
To many citizens the premise of a “hate crime” law is absurd – that the motivation or emotions behind a crime create for it a special category deserving of special punishment.

David,
There was nothing uncivil and disrespectful about my last comment.

Steve,
Being “out, mature, happy, centered and emotionally, spiritually developed” doesn’t shield you or anyone else from someone else’s critical opinions or judgments.

There was nothing uncivil and disrespectful about my last comment.

Unfortunately, just like sexual orientation, just saying so doesn’t make it so

To many citizens the premise of a “hate crime” law is absurd – that the motivation or emotions behind a crime create for it a special category deserving of special punishment.

Not agreeing with the idea of bias (hate) crime laws is certainly a valid position. The hypocrisy is in selectively objecting to them. When Exodus or FOTF, etc, scream in horror over the idea of adding perceived sexual orientation to existing bias crime laws, but do not also lobby just as hard (or even at all) to recall those currently recognizing religion or race, that is hypocritical.

To many citizens the premise of a “hate crime” law is absurd – that the motivation or emotions behind a crime create for it a special category deserving of special punishment.

I wonder. Do any of these citizens complain when the penal system does the same thing for, say, murder? Or is it only absurd when trying to protect a class of people historically subject to abuse?

Being “out, mature, happy, centered and emotionally, spiritually developed” doesn’t shield you or anyone else from someone else’s critical opinions or judgments.

And Steve didn’t say it did. He said that ex-gays don’t seem capable of handling a conversation with such a person. Instead, they

do not respond to specific points made in posts. They resort to preaching and making huge generalizations. They do not listen. They are intimidated and scared of facing mature, happy gay people. They prefer the shelter of conversations with emotionally disturbed, unhappy gay people who come to them first.

David,

Whether one categorically opposes “hate crimes” laws is an important point (although it doesn’t surprise me that “ex-gay” activists take an interest in how gay activists perceive and characterize them). As for saying what’s so or not necessarily so, oh well, I can only tell you what I think.

Thanks for the spirited discussion.

Steve, I put Anthony’s comment up that you replied to so it would make sense, but don’t expect any more of them

At the risk of sounding snarky, I want to make a comment. Anthony’s response pattern, whether it’s conscious to him or not, is typical for the exgays who do not wish to continue in dialog with healthy queer people. They will purposely break the rules so that they will be either moderated or thrown off the board. Then, they can convince themselves that they actually tried. But in the end, it’s just another way of running away.

It’s sad because he doesn’t yet know that we are not the enemy.

All he has to do is make a reasonable effort to interact with people instead of preaching at them, and discuss the topic at hand and he can keep commenting. Unfortunately, you may be right about the pattern as we’ve gone through this with a few others and they never seem to get it.

In this case, he figures that saying some magic words from scripture to the heathens will have us all tossing and turning at night because of course we are all on the wrong path because we aren’t just like him.

I don’t know how he could ever hear God with all that noise coming from his own mouth all the time. The sad thing is that I was once taught some of the same tactics, and it took me years to figure out why I hated sharing my faith with anyone. I didn’t mean to, but I had learned to treat people like mindless idiots and everything inside me said that was wrong.

Perhaps the saddest thing anyone can do is to close their minds and stop learning. The beginning of wisdom is to realize that one really doesn’t know all that much, and will always need to learn more.

They are intimidated and scared of facing mature, happy gay people.

There’s a reason for this. In their belief system, we don’t exist. When they realize that we DO exist, they’re afraid it would challenge every assumption they’ve made, and possibly the entire foundation of their theology.

Jeremayakova says:

To many citizens the premise of a “hate crime” law is absurd – that the motivation or emotions behind a crime create for it a special category deserving of special punishment.

Obviously enough American citizens do see the need for special sanctions on hate crime that we already have both local and federal laws on the books. Why is that the case? Because most of us recognize that crimes motivated by bigotry target not only the immediate victims, but the larger community of citizens in a particular group.

When a synagogue is burned specifically because it is a Jewish place of worship, the arsonists seek not only to harm that institution, but to intimidate and terrorize all Jewish citizens. When a man is beaten and killed specifically because he is a black man, the attack is intended to send a message of fear to all black citizens.

Violence that targets gay people only because they are gay is one of the most common forms of hate-motivated crime in the USA right now. These crimes are intended not just to hurt their immediate victims, but to intimidate and terrorize all gay people, and make us afraid to be visible. These are crimes against our rights and freedoms as American citizens. That is why they deserve the weight of federal as well as local prosecution and punishment.

One other point on the hate crimes issue:

There is a big difference between the federal hate crimes law, which addresses violent crime motivated by bigotry, and hate speech laws, which seek to govern objectionable speech.

Ex-gay organizations that object to including sexual orientation under the federal hate crimes law deliberately confuse the two. They use examples from Canada or Sweden, of a minister who runs into legal trouble for preaching against homosexuality, and claim the same will happen here under an expanded hate crimes law.

What this ignores is America’s very strong protection of free speech. In this country, you can use words as hateful as you wish, as long as you don’t use or directly threaten violence. The hate crimes law does not prohibit neo-Nazis from marching in Jewish neighborhoods, and it does not prohibit the Klan from publishing racist literature.

If the hate crimes law is extended to cover sexual orientation, Fred Phelps and his church will still be free to proclaim that “God hates fags.” And Exodus will still be free to pretend that it can change people from gay to straight.