Ex-Gay Watch

David, they are not “my” comparisons. Please give credit where credit is due. I presented them but I don’t claim them to be my own.

I did, by saying:

Emily, regardless of who said it first, I feel it important to mention that your Nazi comparisons are, as are most such comparisons, not appropriate for civil debate.

Let’s not split hairs, you presented them and it really doesn’t matter where they came from — you made the decision to bring them into this discussion. I’m not trying to pick on you but we have criticized Randy Thomas for doing exactly the same thing.

As someone said, let’s move on. If there is anything else to be said about the original topic, go ahead.

Jay said…

[W]e say that we know where Christ and the Church are, but we don’t know where they aren’t.

That’s a great way to put it, it covers the reality without some of the speculations that often come from the Evangelical perspective.

I will like to ask this to Carlton Pearson: If you say that everybody in the world will go to Heaven, then tell me where Adolf Hitler is, Joseph Stalin, the hijackders that crashed in the twin towers, and other human monsters that have killed, torture, made children orphans, women widows, and other horrific things that other human beings have done to others in a monumental scale (some responsible for the killings of millions) without repenting of the evil they did on this earth, tell me: where are they now? are they with God? do you think for a minute that God will say to these murders: forget the horrendous evil things that you people did on earth to other people and enter in my Heaven. Where is the justice done to the people who were taken from this earth that could have lived their full lives as we all do. If that would be the case, there would be anarchy in this earth with people killing, raping, stealing, and on, and on, because they could say: I can do anything I want because Jesus Christ already gave me my salvation and I’m on my way to Heaven. This preacher says these things because a person has not murdered his family, or Hitler have not murdered his entirely family or even almost his entire race, and on, and on and other atrocities. I will like to ask this preacher: does he believe in the entire bible or has he taken out scriptures from the bible that best suits him? If he calls himself a Christian, preaching a: “gospel of inclusion” then what bible is he using?. I wonder if he is using the: ” bible according to Carlton Pearson” Know this, this preacher will have to give an account to God on weather he preached the bible as what it says in it(it talks a lot about Hell after a person dies) or he made his own believes. If he believes the bible as the written word of God, then why doesn’t he believes it all? and if he thinks that the bible was written just on the thoughts of men, then why does he stills believes in Jesus Christ since he says that it was written just by the thoughts of men? this preacher has a double standard. He probably doesn’t know weather he’s coming or going.

And you call yourself a man of Go, I know that none of us are perfect but being in the spot light praching to thousands I beleive God would rather you say “yes He loves everyone of us that’s why Christ died on the cross for our sins” and lead those that are living other life styles to salvation instead of giving them false hope of going to heaven. And yes Rev. you will have to answer to God as well for leading his sheep astray.

i live in tulsa and this man had almost as big of a church as oral roberts…being the mother of a gay son (and now many adopted sons..lol) i hate that people in general put him down…its not his choice…its not a disfunction in his brain…it drives me insain to hear those things…the whole point boils down to this…everyone no matter their color, religion or sexuality is equal in God’s eyes…He made all of us…we as Christians have been instructed to ‘Judge not lest ye be judged..” yet we are the first ones to say anything negative about anyone

My son is MY PRIDE…and I PRIDE with him…i am so very proud of him for everything he has done…i don’t care about anything other than God gave me this son for a reason…whatever it is God wrote it down in a book and here is my child

Yes i am a Christian woman…it doesn’t mean i have to be cruel just because in others eyes he is “different”…in my eyes and his brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents..he is just our family…

When I think of inclusion, I think of evey sinner who belongs in Church including the homosexual. Inclusion doesn’t mean that what your doing is alright. But means you have a right to reveive salvation. But salvation doesn’t mean you keep doing what your doing!!!!!!! Salvation has a price. As a sinner, I’m in Church to change what I am so God will get the glory for that change. If you want to stay in sin, what good is Church unless you need change? Church isn’t for the rightous, but the sinner.

Larry,

From what you said it sounds to me like you think committed monogamous long-term covenanted relationships between the same sex are sin. To which all I can say is don’t get in one.

For those of us who have read the relevant scriptures, studied their meaning, searched for comparable concurrent language, looked at evolving understandings of issues like slavery, gender and race and seen the coherency of the underlying message of equality before God, we have come to a different conclusion about the meaning of a handful of scriptures.

So you go on worrying about what you are doing and leave others to worry about what they are doing. The odds are that they’ve studied this issue and prayed about it a whole lot more than you.

But thank you for your discussion about inclusion in the church. The next time a gay couple comes and sits down next to you, it’s nice to know that you will shake their hand and make them feel welcome.

God bless you,

Timothy

Just stumbled on this site. I am an activley gay man myself. But I found it interesting how the “Inclusion” people here were not at all tolerant to include Frank or his opinions/beliefs. No one was willing to include Frank’s belief that christianity has a limited definition and does exclude some whose belief does not fit a certain (even his personal) standard. I often find the ‘tolerance for all’ people will not tolerate anyone who believes differently than they.

No, Veini, no one demonstrated intolerance toward Frank — some people simply disagreed with him, and some people demonstrated that Frank’s views are not very orthodox.

Tolerance does not equal agreement, and disagreement does not equal intolerance. Frank and his critics were tolerant of one another even as they disagreed. Frank was neither barred nor chastized for commenting. He remains welcome to comment. If Frank felt uncomfortable or insecure being disagreed with, then that has nothing to do with intolerance.

If you, Veini, are unwilling to tolerate civil disagreement among people of differing views, then you — and you alone — have a problem with “tolerance for all.”

I am an activley gay man myself.

I have never heard a gay person describe themselves this way. Just a thought.