Ex-Gay Watch

I humbly request someone record this and post it somewhere, so I can watch it- I don’t have cable TV. Thanks!

Zahn’s premise is ridiculous MSM ratings fodder. Gays talk all the time about turning straight men gay. It’s part of the conceit that that subculture cultivates.

Jeremayakovka,

What the heck are you talking about?

Where does Paula Zahn put forth a premise that suggests gay men do or do not want to “turn straight men gay?” And for that matter, where is your evidence that “gays” all talk about that (or anything in particular)? I’ve personally never heard anything like it beyond a statement in jest. Are there ex-straight programs somewhere that I haven’t heard about?

“the heck” = campy chit-chat on the Castro. Maybe you need to get out more….

Well that certainly cleared things up.

Emily, one way or the other I’m sure a recording will be available.

LOL David!

OK, it’s a scandal that’s going to break any moment now so I’ll confess here first.

I went through an ex-straight program. And I’m among the 30% who claim to have successfully left the heterosexual lifestyle. I’ve even been interviewed for national magazines.

But (and I’m so ashamed) some militant straight activist photographed me running away from a Hooters last weekend. I swear, I only stopped in to used the phone and eat some hot wings.

Timothy: Ha-ha
David: Can’t tell if your last reply is sarcastic.

EGW (generally): Just updated my post on Exodus’s Freedom Conference with a mention of the Ex-Gay Survivors’ Conference. Had never heard of an “ex-ex-gay” movement before this morning.

I went through an ex-straight program. And I’m among the 30% who claim to have successfully left the heterosexual lifestyle. I’ve even been interviewed for national magazines.

Is there any possibility you could be available to help me stage an intervention with Katee Sackhoff?

There are some girls out there I wanna get into an ex-straight program

David: Ok, thanks for your reassurance.

I think they ruined the show with that Paris Hilton interview in the middle of the program. I don’t think Larry King would interrupt his show to talk about sexual oriention or gender identity.

Favorite quote of the night was keep god out of it. I like how they had two pro panelists and one anti panelist. Yeah his wife had to tell him that he was straight. As for Alan Chamber’s he states something about not having fantasies or temptations. I mean come on what man doesn’t have them? Should of been more personal. Less on Paris Hilton!

We’re bogged down in a war, the economy is tanking, our government is incompetent at every level, but the media just can’t find enough journalists to cover Paris Hilton.

Did Alan really make the claim that he doesn’t suffer from same-sex temptations? That seems to contradict several statements he has made over the last month which suggested he still does suffer from them and feels like he probably always will.

From the rushed transcript, the part on gays/exgays only,
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/27/pzn.01.html :

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his cramped office, Alan Chambers points out books on homosexuality.

(on camera): Here’s “God’s Grace and the Homosexual Next Door.

CHAMBERS: That’s my book.

FEYERICK (voice-over): There are dozens of them promising hope and change. But is change possible?

CHAMBERS: I came out of homosexuality…

FEYERICK: Chambers, now married with two kids, says it is.

CHAMBERS: I think that the best hope that we can give each other is by being really honest.

FEYERICK: He heads up Exodus International, an umbrella group of over 170 ministries across the country meeting this week. The group caters to so-called ex-gays, men and women, like Chambers who say they have overcome homosexuality.

CHAMBERS: I have absolutely 100 percent no desire to be involved in homosexuality or be with someone in the same sex. That’s different than temptation, it’s different then attraction, but I’m not gay.

FEYERICK (on camera): There are critics who will say all you’ve succeeded in doing is suppressing your real sexual urges.

CHAMBERS: I challenge anyone to say what I have isn’t authentic and it isn’t real, because no one can say that.

FEYERICK (voice-over): And yet, that’s exactly what many men and women maintain who went from gay to not gay and back again.

Darlene Bogle, once a major voice in the ex-gay movement, appeared today with other former Exodus leaders to say they were wrong.

DARLENE BOGLE, FMR EXODUS INT LEADER: I apologize to those individuals and families who believed that my message of change was necessary to be acceptable to God.

FEYERICK (on camera): Indeed, there are many programs, from team workshops to support groups, to one-on-one therapy, some of it unconventional.

All say they cure what they call same-sex attraction, though none offer any scientific proof.

(voice-over): Yet some people, wrestling with their sexual identity, will try anything.

Father, I just pray for these men, Lord, that…

FEYERICK: Take this live-in program in Memphis, Tennessee. The rules are strict. There’s no flamboyant behavior, no provocative clothing or underwear. Men travel in groups of three, read Bible passages dealing with sexual immorality, and keep journals, what they call “moral inventories.”

Other techniques used in non-religious based therapies includes something called bioenergetics to release painful memories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom! Mom! Why did you do that to me!

This psychiatrist denounces this therapy. He says they are harmful.

FEYERICK: Psychiatrist Jack Drescher, specializes in homosexuality. He denounces these types therapies had harmful.

DR JACK DRESCHER, AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSN: It’s unfortunate that that there are people who are willing to accept, because of their desperate homosexual feelings, to accept this kinds of treatment.

FEYERICK: Which is why some therapists, like David Matheson say keep God out of it.

DAVID MATHESON, GENDER WHOLENESS THERAPIST: It is an emotional and a psychological issue, not a spiritual or religious issue, similar to diabetes. Not to compare the two, but if someone was dying of diabetes, I’d send them to hospital and not to church.

FEYERICK: That may help explain a recent shift in parts of the ex-gay community towards choice, not change.

WARREN THROCKMORTON, PHD, GROVE CITY COLLEGE: If the sexual identity therapy puts the emphasis on how do you want to live? What do you believe is valuable? What are you beliefs? What core beliefs do you have? And how can we help you, then, live in alignment with this?

FEYERICK: In some cases that means celibacy. And succeed or not, however one defines that, sees that, it is certainly likely to be a lifelong struggle.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

There followed a commentary on this report with Zahn and three guests:

ZAHN: And back to our panel, now. Eric Metaxas, Dr. Justin Richardson, and Sean Kennedy.

I want to put that poll back up on the screen, right now, because I think it’s really interesting, showing that the majority of people don’t think you could change your sexual orientation. Still, about a third of the folks out there think you can.

Sean, can you?

SEAN KENNEDY, FEATURES ED, THE ADVOCATE: Well no, you can’t. You can’t. And I think it’s great that the American public is starting to realize that. I believe, I saw it on CNN today, that poll, and I was really excited when I think this was the first time that an American majority understand that gay people can’t change their sexual orientation, just like straight people can’t change their sexual orientation.

ZAHN: And this is something, Dr. Richardson, you’ve studied a lot, and you think there are three key components to one sexuality.

DR JUSTIN RICHARDSON, PSYCHIATRIST: Yes, and just as Alan Chambers explained — he’s the president of the Exodus ministry — his attractions haven’t changed, but he’s found a way to suppress them. And that’s what we think that homosexual attractions are not changeable, that people who have fantasies about somebody of the same sex.

That won’t change, but if it is great conflicts with their religious beliefs, that they will struggle to find a compromise to both have their religious affiliation and have their sex and love life. And that’s a struggle, which we feel compassion about.

But what won’t change is the sexual fantasies. And the one thing I would love to do is to dropped the word “cure” from the bottom of your screen, because, you know, the American Psychiatric Association, over 30 years ago said homosexuality is not an illness. So, it doesn’t make any sense to say…

(CROSSTALK)

Yeah, it’s been over 30 years, so we should be past that.

ZAHN: But Eric, we aren’t and I know you have friends who lived gay lifestyles who now have gone straight. Are they living completely straight lives, free of even this fantasy life Dr. Richardson was talking about?

ERIC METAXAS, AUTHOR, “EVERYTHING ELSE…”: Yeah, it’s strange to hear this kind of stuff, because I total — I absolutely know people, know them well, they’re friends that have totally changed.

Now, that’s incendiary to say that, and yet it’s true. In other words, I don’t think this because that’s true…

ZAHN: With all three of those components, though? Do they still fantasize about… METAXAS: But, we don’t hold straights to that. In other words, I think straights all across America fantasize about people other than their spouses. Right? And we don’t say to those people, you are an adulterer, you need to accept the fact you want to be with other people, you need to be like a prisoner of your own desires. We can choose what we want to do.

KENNEDY: And have you asked your friends whether, you know, they went through turmoil or anxiety or depression on their road to being “straight,” that’s what people tell me.

METAXAS: When you tell people what they are — I mean, it’s kind of like if somebody looks at a gene and says, No, Sean, you’re straight. It really doesn’t matter what you do or what your feelings or anything, you’re straight. You know, you would be offended by that, because you say, I have free will and I am what I say that I am, not what genes say that I am. It’s — there’s something — in other words, there’s a double standard and I just think we have to be careful about the double standard.

ZAHN: Dr. Robertson, have you ever wanted to be straight?

ROBERTSON: You know, when I was a child, it was a terrible and humiliating thing to grow up to be gay. That was a long time ago. It’s a little bit easier now, but it’s not that much easier for young children. So, of course, kids and teens who are growing up and recognizing that they are gay, feel a terrible amount of turmoil, and if then they’re in a position where they’re a part of a religious community or society that says if you were gay, you’re a sinner, or you have to leave this family, that’s a terrible position for them to be in. They either have to renounce this part of themselves or that part of themselves and that’s…

ZAHN: You get the last word, Sean.

KENNEDY: Oh, thanks. I just wanted to point out Paula, that you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics are against reparative therapy. They say that, you know, kids and teenagers and adults can’t be changed, their sexual orientation, they say, furthermore, and only is it not successful, but that it does create a lot of anxiety and depression and mental problems in these people, so…

ZAHN: All right, we’re going to have to leave there, tonight. Why do they always blame the mom? Aren’t the fathers ever the fault for anything?

Eric Metaxas, Dr. Justin Richardson, Sean Kennedy thank you all.

It seems to be all the same to me, news reports all want black and white and instead they all end up grey.

It was a train wreck from where I was sitting. Statistics were wrong, terminology badly botched, transgendered and gay issues were intertwined in a way that was confusing and, while he may be perfectly charming for all I know, Sean Kennedy didn’t belong there. They had access to so much and did such a poor job; it was just disappointing.

It was a train wreck from where I was sitting. Statistics were wrong, terminology badly botched, transgendered and gay issues were intertwined in a way that was confusing and, while he may be perfectly charming for all I know, Sean Kennedy didn’t belong there. They had access to so much and did such a poor job; it was just disappointing

Ditto David.
Paula spent more time talking of how controversial the subject of homosexuality is than actually discussing the subject. A bunch of shallow soundbites designed to sell pharmaceuticals to people, not explore or inform people. A “train wreck” would have been more informative and entertaining to watch.

Whoa! We should expect these shows to be useless and be glad they aren’t even worse. Some possitives:

I’m glad they covered transexuals, even though in muddled the gay issue a bit, since this topic deserves a lot more attention. The young schoolgirl spoke well for herself, and I was pleased how her parents provided her with thier full support.

Their resident guru explained the difference between gender identity and same sex orientation, so I hope at least some viewers understood what she said.

Paula kept saying “sexual preference” which was irksome.

When the word cure was mentioned, I looked down and saw it was in quotes. Good for them.

Reshowing “unnamed person” (that’s a nice touch) whacking away at those pillows with his tennis racket was really a hoot. We couldn’t pay someone to make a fool of himself like that. Glad they repeated it for their viewers.

The last word was information about how the AAP comdemns reparative therapy. I hope this sticks in peoples minds.

Bill,

I have to disagree.

They convoluted transexuality with homosexuality. While both are important discussions, it’s like having a segment on Apple iPhones and applesauce. It leaves the viewer confused.

And the resident expert defined both orientation and gender in terms of “choice”. This is not only inaccurate, it’s more harmful than helpful.

So, I’m in the camp that says “train wreck”.

However…

I was encouraged both by what Alan said and by what Warren said.

CHAMBERS: I have absolutely 100 percent no desire to be involved in homosexuality or be with someone in the same sex. That’s different than temptation, it’s different then attraction, but I’m not gay.

Alan clarified that his “desire to be involved” is not the same thing as his temptations or his attractions. And that is a good thing.

He did not say that he’s “former” or not same-sex attracted, but that he doesn’t want to be involved with homosexuality or someone of the same sex. That’s an improvement and I want to give him credit.

So too did Warren distinguish between changing orientation and personal choices to “live in alignment” with “core beliefs”.

Indeed, if the ex-gay movement were to adopt this language more regularly – and get out of politics – there would be little to fault them. We could disagree about theology or about what is helpful v. harmful, but that is a quite different matter than dishonesty or religious oppression via secular law.

I was encouraged both by what Alan said and by what Warren said.

So was I, that was some of the most important stuff in there and they gave Throckmorton maybe 5 seconds and Alan less than a minute. The guy from the Advocate got ten times that and I still don’t know why.

Ditto on the rest as well.

Alan clarified that his “desire to be involved” is not the same thing as his temptations or his attractions. And that is a good thing.

To me it looked like he was talkng a bit out of both sides of his mouth again:

CHAMBERS: I have absolutely 100 percent no desire to be involved in homosexuality or be with someone in the same sex. That’s different than temptation, it’s different then attraction, but I’m not gay.

CHAMBERS: I challenge anyone to say what I have isn’t authentic and it isn’t real, because no one can say that.

He didn’t quite deny it outright, but if he’s acknowledged in a roundabout way that he still has attractions to guys, then yes, he is just suppressing his sexual urges. It may be “real” to him in the sense that not acting on his urges is a real change he’s happy having made, but the way he answers Feyerick seems designed to create the impression that he’s done more than suppress his sexual urges, which he’s just admitted is all he’s done.

Of course I’m just going off the transcript, was this clearly a one on one conversation?

PS: I like the sweet edit countdown clock.

tic toc!

With all due respect, clarify and Alan Chambers do not belong in the same sentence. The more this man says, the more confused I am about what he means or doesn’t mean, etc.

It’s ridiculous that CNN would invite The Advocate to speak at all. It’s the People Magazine of gay entertainment — hardly a source of intelligent research and news.

yes, i can’t imagine that anyone who ever wrote anything for the Advocate would know anything about this subject. Ahem.

Tim,

I realize that reviewing a show like this is like dumpster diving, trying to find a few items of value amongst all the trash, so I would try to emphasize the few good points and let the trash collector deal with the rest.

We sure do live in exciting times, though, don’t we?

With all due respect, clarify and Alan Chambers do not belong in the same sentence. The more this man says, the more confused I am about what he means or doesn’t mean, etc.

lol PW,

I understand what you mean, there have been times when reading and listening to Alan that I thought he was equivocating. But, I don’t really think so. My read is he is being sincere and trying to be honest, for which I give him kudos. He’s in a tough place, he heads Exodus for goodness sake! If God would just give him a magic staff like he gave to Moses, he could part the Red Sea and we could all walk into the promised land. Alan is not touting magic (read: “instant”) ‘deliverance.’ Instead, he talks of process (the “wilderness?”). So, on the one hand, you have “Christians” claiming that the God of the bible (the one who did miracles and stuff) is the God of today, and then you have some other “Christians” who are a bit more honest and admit they’ve never seen “God” restore a missing limb or “cure” ssa. Not only does Alan have to contend with those who still claim that God restores missing limbs and cures ssa, in addition he has to deal with people who say that this same God simply loves and accepts people with missing limbs and ssa. It’s a difficult course to navigate, especially since everything hinges on belief and not evidence that could, er, demand a verdict and “clarify.”

It’s a difficult course to navigate, especially since everything hinges on belief and not evidence that could, er, demand a verdict and “clarify.”

The “course” seems to be between telling the truth and not telling the truth, so he tries to split the difference by fudging. The truth seems to clearly be that he is still attracted to men but chooses not to act on it for religious reasons, and Exodus counseling helps him stay on the path he has chosen. If that’s how he finds meaning in his life, more power to him, but pandering to the right wing base who want to hear fantasies about gay people magically becoming straight is still lying.

We sure do live in exciting times, though, don’t we?

yes indeed we do.

But isn’t “May you live in exciting times” an ancient Chinese curse?

The “course” seems to be between telling the truth and not telling the truth, so he tries to split the difference by fudging. The truth seems to clearly be that he is still attracted to men but chooses not to act on it for religious reasons, and Exodus counseling helps him stay on the path he has chosen. If that’s how he finds meaning in his life, more power to him, but pandering to the right wing base who want to hear fantasies about gay people magically becoming straight is still lying.

Boo,

The “course” does seem that way, no? To me too. You’ll note I couldn’t bring myself to say Alan is being honest, rather, “trying to be honest.” I do think he’s sincere though. I would guess he really has faith in what he believes and therefore bases some of his statements on ‘hope,’ perhaps making his hopes future truths in his mind?

To me, Alan seems to be distinguishing what he believes from magic, which has caused him a bit of trouble with the magicians. I think that’s progress. At some point he may see that he is doing all the work, giving “God” the ‘credit’ and at that point may ask, why?
A good question to ask, and answer, by my estimation.