Former exgay Peterson Toscano finds reasons not to view the leaders of Exodus, “Love Won Out,” and Love In Action — people like Exodus board member and Focus on the Family official Mike Haley — as enemies, even though these leaders impose their own agendas upon young people and then manipulate the Bible and psychology to give themselves a semblance of credibility.
Toscano points to forces within the gay “community” that give sexual strugglers reason — or at least an excuse — to seek help from exgay organizations.
I can also understand that, to a degree.For some, the “queer community” (and what a god-awful term IMO) is ONLY a “stark wasteland of promiscuity, bad relationships and shallowness”. I question who these people are, though.I’m sure if I were straight and spent my time getting drunk in low dives, picking up scrubbers and paying for lap dances I’d want to go gay all of sudden.Oh. That’s right… no-one thinks that is the entire extent of being heterosexual. And last time I checked, even though such a “lifestyle” is indeed possible for straight Christians none of them thought they needed to change their sexual orientation to escape that type of life. Nope, they just avoid such places/behaviour. Dare I suggest such gay Christians do likewise???
While I agree with Peter that these people should not be seen as enemies (although many Christian Conservatives have said that gays are the worst aspects of America and see us in terms of enemies and warfare), I don’t agree about the “gay” community. I have never fully understood the concept of “gay” community. I have never been a big part of any coherent movement. Even though I have been to bars in the past and centers, I tend to see gays as much more diverse than that. I am sure if I hung out in ghettos, then maybe there would be a more assimilated community, but I have never seen it in my own life. Perhaps it is better to say that people go exgay because of the influence of background, society, and religion, but that a perception of the gay community may influence already ingrained ideas.
I have only seen one defining factor for exgays though: the religious idea that one is committing a grave sin. I have not seen many other reasons for going exgay.
It is important to consider exactly what an enemy is: is it an outside force that seeks to destroy from within or is it simply someone/thing that disagrees with your principles. There is a big difference. I have always held an extreme distaste for religion, especially the conservative realm. Actions that I have seen from various groups would lead me to believe that yes they can be defined as an enemy and I view these groups and people as such. Groups such as Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America, Lifesite, and Exodus, spend millions of dollars each year fighting our existance. People who profess love and doing the work of “Jesus” and yet take all action to make another person’s life difficult and miserable, are an enemy. I have skepticism around the entire ex-gay movement and believe it is based mostly on the clever use of fear, misinformation and blatant dishonesty. The fact that these groups cannot produce credible statistics on results, they rely on testimony and picture of supposed ex-gays with their wives and children. I also beg the question of ex-gays who are not christians or are atheist. How can one change orientation if he or she does not believe in god or Jesus?
Also, the gay “community” is poorly defined because in many ways, we are not a community. It is extremely difficult to define a community when we are so diverse and widespread. I would prefer to compare it to a “race” or “religion”, in other words, a minority. The biggest problem has always been the lack of information or non-existant role models. When one comes out of the closet, it usually means going to a bar for the first time and having your first hook up. Hardly ever does it entail meeting your first 10+ year couple with a home and family. Perhaps if this were the case, younger gays would see that we are just like everyone else and being gay is not all about bars and one night stands. Tim W
One could argue that ‘community’ has also been a descriptor of the black collective, however diverse and disunified it may be.
I think that descriptor is set aside for groups that seem indistinct from each other as individuals.
And this is also why terms such as ‘black leader’ or ‘gay activist’, rather than leader and activist is used to mark the outsider status of that person.
Indistinct gay people who are mainstreamed and closely resemble their heterosexual peers aren’t sexy or prurient to heterosexual interests.
This has been true of blacks.
As abhorrent as they are compelling, so to speak.
This is why it seems the most stereotypical images get the most print and broadcast exposure.
Gays are one big blob, not individuals those who validate stereotypes a tiny minority.
‘Community’ is just another way of creating a shelf of isolation and identity.
I would use the term enemy for these groups. I just came across my notes from Chad Thompson’s book.
And in it he states that gay and lesbian activists need Christians to be hateful to convince themselves that the Christian message is the result of a right wing conspiracy.
This is where his cred goes deep to the south.
Christianity has stated…from the most formal of it to now…that homosexuals and homosexuality are an abomination and abhorrent to the will and doctrines of God.
That’s been interpreted to anything from prison to execution.
Therefore the VERY principles in Christianity is and has been HATEFUL to gay people for two millenniums.
The Christian message isn’t the RESULT of a right wing conspiracy.
But Christian indoctrination fuels the right wing.
And it IS a conspiracy.
The courting of black churches, stacking the Supreme Court or other judiciaries with stealth nominees who are unqualified UNLESS they show their Christian credentials.
Specifically against gays or women’s reproductive health options (which is another way of monitoring women’s sex lives).
Important cabinet posts, like the FDA is headed by several evangelicals who are blocking Plan B birth control and comprehensive sex ed as we speak and groups like FOTF, FRC and Exodus have proven their agenda in restricting the freedoms of gays and lesbians.
The President has let his support of the FMA clear.
These are not Christians simply pursuing a benevolent support system for a group of people in their idea of a crisis…but they are a full steam ahead political train that wants to continue an already damaging system against gay people.
Chad paints gay people as paranoid.
Funny, if that system he supports weren’t there to begin with, or demolished long ago…would he still identify as gay?
Once this was a political agenda for Christians, to seek out other Christians against gay equality, and require the country’s laws to promote their religion, they became an enemy.
Not just of gay people and women, but the guiding principles of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
In reading Peter Toscano’s entry, I think the pivotal statement is this:
Many of us had to fight our way into a healthy life, and the gay community was not always affirming of the choices we made. Gay people of faith and those who choose to be celibate before being in a committed relationship can find resistance from what seems the dominate gay culture
Frankly, I think he’s right. But then, the same is true for the broader culture (including the “straight” culture) in general. But I believe that it is more qualitatively true for us.
What he doesn’t mention here but he has mentioned elsewhere (The Salon articles on exgays, I think) is that so many gays and lesbians carry such blanket hostility to Christianity that they also are hostile to gay Christians. Sometimes has an effect in driving some gay Christians to the LIA and others of the Exodus ilk.
As others have said here in this thread, we’re not very good at recognizing the diversity of our own “community”. We can do a better job if we really want to take diversity seriously. That much, at least, is up to us.
oh man, for me, I was attracted to the Bowery Boys, Lou Costello (who does not look unlike Sean Hannity), Jerry Lewis (so much so that I would shave my head like him), John Travolta, Chevy Chase, that guy on That Girl, Robert Reed (gay), Tab Hunter (gay), and Anthony Perkins (gay).
I was so attracted by many of these guys.
I’ve stated before that our enemy is not the liar but the lies. If James Dobson and Jerry Falwell were to go nuts (OK more nuts) and pull out automatic weapons at a combined Exodus/NARTH convention and blow everyone there away… the anti-gay and ex-gay nonsense would still continue.
And before we think of ex-gay ministries as the enemy, remember that often the ex-gay ministers themselves are also victims of the very lies they tell.
Sorry, somehow my email message got here when it was for another post.
I’ve stated before that our enemy is not the liar but the lies
I find it difficult to differentiate. Lies need liars to spread them. As far as I can tell the liars spread the lies because it helps with their fund raising.
There used to be an old saying that goes something to the effect “you tend to your knitting, and I’ll tend to mine.” The problem is that Dobson (who is nothing more than a child psychologist) and Jerry Falwell and like sorts want to interfere with my knitting.
If someone wants to eschew homosex, he or she should eschew homosex. It isn’t a mystery.
It is possible that those proclaiming to be ex-gays are victims themselves of the dishonesty of the ex-gay movement. This is accomplished through intensive religious brainwashing, and to me, that is a major tactic that has been used by the religous community for centuries. This in itself does not mean that these ministries and those spreading the message of these ministries, are not the enemy of the gay community. I believe that they are an enemy of ours because of the obsessive amount of time and money they spend on opposing equality and simple dignity for our community. I am sickened by efforts of these persons to oppose equality, hate crimes legislation and anti-bullying measures. Again, I would state that those people have obviously never been on the receiving end of their efforts. Especially when these efforts come from those proclaiming to have once been gay themselves let alone christians. That just defies logic and humanity and is a betrayal of all gay people. If this is not the face of an enemy, I don’t know what is.
Tim,
“Again, I would state that those people have obviously never been on the receiving end of their efforts.”
I suspect that they have, and probably more so than you or I. I’m not a psychologist and will probably not explain this correctly, but here goes…
You kick a dog once and it will hate you.
But you can train a dog by beating it so badly and consistently that simply the cessation of beating will earn the dog’s appreciation and affection.
You may be like the dog that will bite if it gets kicked.
But I suspect many of the ex-gays are in a place where they will gladly say anything or champion any cause and pour out love and devotion to the religious bigots simply to be part of the crowd that is praised and not punished.
Sorry if I didn’t explain that very well. Unlike James Dobson, I don’t have any experience in cruelty to dogs.
Timothy,
That last paragraph REALLY nails it. Exodus reuses and resuses the same spokespeople and I’ve had to wonder why. There are few new faces.
I live in the Hollywood environment where physical beauty is taken to extremes and perfection is itself a religion.
I might be prejudiced, but the ex gay movement doesn’t have a lot of people with ‘star quality’ so to speak, to attract a bigger following.
This makes me think this is why they are taking the political gambit. They want the power of government to do what their own limits of attraction cannot.
And their spokespersons are all entertainers on some level. They sing, or they preach or do a full time schedule of public speaking and wooing the media. And they certain hawk their CD’s at every opportunity.
They are not doing their version of good work modestly, or quietly.
That makes me suspicious sometimes. They seem to be fairly marginal people and were from the beginning. Their better, youthful days wasted being stoned or something.
Now, they want so badly to be loved, validated and accepted…that their very detractors are their friends. Because no one else could be.
Capitulating to the very bias that governed them before.
They just took the side that was more powerful and they, least able to fight.
This is what I tried to caution Chad on.
He wants to be liked by both sides, so he straddles the fence to get accepted by both.